Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

3 years ago, remote top paying gigs were hard to find. Today they are the norm

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 147 posts

Re: 3 years ago, remote top paying gigs were hard to find. Today they are the norm

#51

Post by atomashpolskiy »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #43
luch wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or even western Europe. There are some world class developers in Spain, Italy or France that are paid ~30K€ to 50K€ per year. Even when factoring in the tax levels and COL, there is still a huge potential for social dumping from the EU

Spain and Italy are Western Europe by post-WW2 geo-politics, but a better definition would be to say they are Southern Europe which, by developer pay, is even worse than Eastern Europe that most devs there have long moved north to the point where I doubt they're many left there.

Hehe, I, for one, moved to Spain (Costa del Sol) from a high paying location. Working remotely for a US company through a Spanish outsourcing company and getting payed peanuts compared to what I earned back at home, not to speak of US salaries (though my pay here is still 2x average local salary). Heck, although I'm basically living paycheck to paycheck right now, I could not be happier with my decision, life is good here. I'm sure I will be able to find new sources of income over time to compensate for the initial losses. But I could never have found the great climate, nature and relaxed people in many other top paying spots. Can't have everything right away, have patience.

Re: 3 years ago, remote top paying gigs were hard to find. Today they are the norm

#52

Post by groundCode »

cblconfederate wrote: post #42
jayd16 wrote: post #21

I don't think we'll really know what the future holds until people start coming back to work. When everyone is on zoom, its easy to keep zoom etiquette. Its a lot harder if we revert back to in office meetings and a dial in number if someone happens to be WFH that day.

> start coming back to work. Hint: they won't. When the office is half-empty, it's useless, people might as well go back home. Remote is a self-reinforcing loop, office isn't

I think they might. And we might be in a hacker news bubble with our wish to stay remote.

Overwhelmingly the developers in my organisation are happy to work remote forever. Deliver people, product people, design people all seem to want to be back in the office. Upper management as well.

Re: 3 years ago, remote top paying gigs were hard to find. Today they are the norm

#53

Post by novok »

giantandroids wrote: post #12

It's always been a no brainer for my team to hire remote and we were majority remote before COVID. There is simple reason for this; The hiring pool is much much wider when you remove geographical restrictions. Trying to hire within the criteria of someone being able to physically transport themselves to a certain location limits greatly your ability to find and recruit talent. Even more so for niche areas where skill…

Even in a remote world, it's still pretty painful to deal with large timezone differences. I don't want to work with people in india if I'm in the america timezone set, and if they could choose, people working for american companies in india would probably feel the same. Similar with european offices. NYC, Brazil and SF can all interact with each other well enough.

So even if the software world was remote, I still think you'd probably have to move to an american timezone somewhere.

Re: 3 years ago, remote top paying gigs were hard to find. Today they are the norm

#54

Post by cblconfederate »

groundCode wrote: post #52
cblconfederate wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> start coming back to work. Hint: they won't. When the office is half-empty, it's useless, people might as well go back home. Remote is a self-reinforcing loop, office isn't

I think they might. And we might be in a hacker news bubble with our wish to stay remote. Overwhelmingly the developers in my organisation are happy to work remote forever. Deliver people, product people, design people all seem to want to be back in the office. Upper management as well.

The hacker news groupthink is actually weirdly stuck with the office, despite the signs

Re: 3 years ago, remote top paying gigs were hard to find. Today they are the norm

#55

Post by NeverFade »

groundCode wrote: post #52
cblconfederate wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> start coming back to work. Hint: they won't. When the office is half-empty, it's useless, people might as well go back home. Remote is a self-reinforcing loop, office isn't

I think they might. And we might be in a hacker news bubble with our wish to stay remote. Overwhelmingly the developers in my organisation are happy to work remote forever. Deliver people, product people, design people all seem to want to be back in the office. Upper management as well.

> And we might be in a hacker news bubble with our wish to stay remote.

You really think that outside of our "hacker news bubble", everyone is *dying* to go back to their offices in SF, to the rat race of getting raises every year to barely keep up with rising housing and general living costs, and never having a hope of buying a house or raising a family, even as senior engineers?

Do you really think the average person prefers that to living in a quiet, zero-crime suburb, in a nice big home, and spending all day every day in the comfort of their home with their family and pets?

Re: 3 years ago, remote top paying gigs were hard to find. Today they are the norm

#56

Post by NeverFade »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #49
busrf wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the CEO of the large streaming company based in Los Gatos has strongly negative feelings about remote work even after COVID: https://www.wsj.com/articles/netflixs-reed-hastings-deems-re...

Netflix and FAANGs in general can get away with employee unfriendly practices due to the obscene compensation they offer which provides them with an endless stream of talented candidates knocking on their door. The problem is, I see these practices slowly creeping in European tech companies, but without the glorious compensation to make up for them: i.e. companies wanting to put you through 3-6 rounds of interviews,…

I wouldn't consider FAANG comp to be "obscene", in fact many of the lower-paying FAANGs - Amazon, and recently also Google - are not paying much above market pay.

Facebook has already committed to supporting more remote work, as has Microsoft.

Re: 3 years ago, remote top paying gigs were hard to find. Today they are the norm

#57

Post by alfiedotwtf »

onethought wrote: post #29
alfiedotwtf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I know companies where management have refused work-from-home PRE-COVID have struggled to deal with their whole company forced to work from home because of lockdowns as they were unprepared. As soon as restrictions were lifted here, these same companies forced workers to come back into the office... and now only a few weeks later, we’re in a lockdown again. In a digital world, and being the primary workers in t…

I agree. But what about the business that aren’t 100% digital? Is it okay to have half your workforce at home? Is it fair? What about roles that thrive off human interaction, do they get written off?

This is Hacker News, so I was speaking to the crowds here. Sure, most companies can’t have work-from-home as a viable alternative, but I’m specifically talking about purely digital companies - even where devs don’t interact with customers :shrug.gif:

Re: 3 years ago, remote top paying gigs were hard to find. Today they are the norm

#58

Post by doteka »

NeverFade wrote: post #55
groundCode wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they might. And we might be in a hacker news bubble with our wish to stay remote. Overwhelmingly the developers in my organisation are happy to work remote forever. Deliver people, product people, design people all seem to want to be back in the office. Upper management as well.

> And we might be in a hacker news bubble with our wish to stay remote. You really think that outside of our "hacker news bubble", everyone is *dying* to go back to their offices in SF, to the rat race of getting raises every year to barely keep up with rising housing and general living costs, and never having a hope of buying a house or raising a family, even as senior engineers? Do you really think the average pers…

The vast majority of even the developed world is nothing like SF. In particular, for most people outside major capitals buying a house and raising a family is very doable.

> spending all day every day in the comfort of their home

This may sound good to you, it definitely doesn’t sound good to an extrovert. If that was my prospects for the rest of my life, I’d likely shoot myself.

Re: 3 years ago, remote top paying gigs were hard to find. Today they are the norm

#59

Post by joshuamorton »

NeverFade wrote: post #55
groundCode wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they might. And we might be in a hacker news bubble with our wish to stay remote. Overwhelmingly the developers in my organisation are happy to work remote forever. Deliver people, product people, design people all seem to want to be back in the office. Upper management as well.

> And we might be in a hacker news bubble with our wish to stay remote. You really think that outside of our "hacker news bubble", everyone is *dying* to go back to their offices in SF, to the rat race of getting raises every year to barely keep up with rising housing and general living costs, and never having a hope of buying a house or raising a family, even as senior engineers? Do you really think the average pers…

Put simply: yes. I know a lot of people who enjoy socialization provided at the office, and I know a lot of people who get a productivity boost due to the dynamics of from-office work. Heck, there at even people who like SF and city life on its own merits.

There are also lots of people working from 1br apartments who can't wait to work from a space that isn't also their bedroom.

Re: 3 years ago, remote top paying gigs were hard to find. Today they are the norm

#60

Post by NeverFade »

doteka wrote: post #58
NeverFade wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And we might be in a hacker news bubble with our wish to stay remote. You really think that outside of our "hacker news bubble", everyone is *dying* to go back to their offices in SF, to the rat race of getting raises every year to barely keep up with rising housing and general living costs, and never having a hope of buying a house or raising a family, even as senior engineers? Do you really think the average pers…

The vast majority of even the developed world is nothing like SF. In particular, for most people outside major capitals buying a house and raising a family is very doable. > spending all day every day in the comfort of their home This may sound good to you, it definitely doesn’t sound good to an extrovert. If that was my prospects for the rest of my life, I’d likely shoot myself.

> The vast majority of even the developed world is nothing like SF.

For American workers, most tech hubs are SF or very similar to it, in terms of CoL. SF, LA, Seattle, Manhattan, etc.

> it definitely doesn’t sound good to an extrovert

Engineers tend to be introverted.

Post reply on HN