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Timezone Bullshit

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Re: Timezone Bullshit

#51

Post by db48x »

macintux wrote: post #46
Lvl999Noob wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the topic of DST... can you explain why some countries use DST? Anytime I look for the reasoning of it, it says that DST helps "make better use of daytime" but how? The earth isn't gonna say "Damn! These people changed their clocks. I better change by rotation and give them more sun time." Whether you have DST or not, you still have the same amount of time with sunlight in a day.

Just once I’d like to have a time zone discussion on HN that doesn’t devolve into pages of arguing about daylight saving time. If you search HN you’ll find plenty on this topic.

You'll have a happier life if your dreams are attainable.

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#52

Post by throw0101a »

Lvl999Noob wrote: post #43
jwalton wrote: post #27

Another reason not to use EST/EDT is that they are overspecifying the time zone in most cases. If you ask for output in EDT, but the date is in December (which is not part of daylight savings time) then should the date output be UTC-4 or UTC-5? Technically you asked for EDT. Using EST as a shortcut isn’t a good idea, either - most software will “know what you mean” and use EST or EDT appropriately... except, both The…

On the topic of DST... can you explain why some countries use DST? Anytime I look for the reasoning of it, it says that DST helps "make better use of daytime" but how? The earth isn't gonna say "Damn! These people changed their clocks. I better change by rotation and give them more sun time." Whether you have DST or not, you still have the same amount of time with sunlight in a day.

The closer one is to the poles, the more the number of hours of daylight shifts over the seasons.

So at/near the equator, in a place like Panama, you will get roughly 12 hours of daylight in both the December and June Solstices.

* https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/panama/panama

Whereas in the Edinburgh you go from having 7 hours of daylight in December to over 17 hours in June:

* https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/edinburgh

So people want those 7 hours to be when it's most convenient for them.

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#53

Post by Lvl999Noob »

mabbo wrote: post #47
Lvl999Noob wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the topic of DST... can you explain why some countries use DST? Anytime I look for the reasoning of it, it says that DST helps "make better use of daytime" but how? The earth isn't gonna say "Damn! These people changed their clocks. I better change by rotation and give them more sun time." Whether you have DST or not, you still have the same amount of time with sunlight in a day.

Golf courses. Well, okay, this is my wonderful father's half serious answer that I love to retell. The basic idea is that it's easier to convince everyone that is actually 5:00pm and time to leave work than it is to convince just your boss that you want to start work an hour earlier and leave and hour earlier. This problem is then applied to politicians and other powerful people, who want to go golfing after work. If…

Are there really places that don't observe DST and also don't change their working hours? Just shift the working hours by a few hours when the seasons change. It also gives more granularity for the changes. If 1 week in the whole season is particularly cold, then change the time again for that 1 week.

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#54

Post by Tepix »

It's not just timezones names that are bullshit (they are!), the whole calendar is dumb.

Ideally the world should switch to an "earth calendar" where the year begins on the shortest day (currently Dec 21st for 90% of the population) and there are four yearly planet-wide holidays:

1. northern solstice

2. southern solstice

3. northward equinox

4. southward equinox

While we are at it, we could also do something more clever than months, weeks and the time system. 24/60/60 is a pain.

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#55

Post by etripe »

leokennis wrote: post #50
kenniskrag wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> toying with the idea of dropping daylight Europeans turn back clocks for daylight saving, perhaps for last time. source: https://www.dw.com/en/europeans-turn-back-clocks-for-dayligh...

It will not happen. The science is overwhelming that having one timezone all year long is worse for people, and switching the clock back and forth twice a years is a minor nuisance at most. The EU's "Ban DST" is the same populist bullshit as Trumps "inject Windex to cure COVID". Based on nothing and ignorant at best. And the cherry on top is, if you ask the EU if they want to receive a no strings attached gift of €10…

If the science is overwhelming, do you have a source? If not, what are the downsides to having the same timezone all year?

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#56

Post by datejfktn »

kenniskrag wrote: post #44
Hamuko wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU DST debacle has been such a shitshow that I have trouble believing the words "perhaps for last time". And now with COVID-19, I haven't seen anyone actually focus on implementing the damn thing.

What do you have to implement?

For once pretty much no one is aware of this supposed change. There was like a couple of articles on the day it was voted and that's it.

This will 100% not happen, it's another one of those things that the EU parliament votes that everyone ignores, and it's perfect ammunition for those complaining that it makes laws without popular consultation.

Trying to go forward with this change will generate massive anti EU backlash.

And then you have the UK problem. Having variable time offsets between EU and UK would add yet another layer of disruption on top of Brexit.

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#57

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

throw0101a wrote: post #52
Lvl999Noob wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the topic of DST... can you explain why some countries use DST? Anytime I look for the reasoning of it, it says that DST helps "make better use of daytime" but how? The earth isn't gonna say "Damn! These people changed their clocks. I better change by rotation and give them more sun time." Whether you have DST or not, you still have the same amount of time with sunlight in a day.

The closer one is to the poles, the more the number of hours of daylight shifts over the seasons. So at/near the equator, in a place like Panama, you will get roughly 12 hours of daylight in both the December and June Solstices. * https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/panama/panama Whereas in the Edinburgh you go from having 7 hours of daylight in December to over 17 hours in June: * https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/edin…

The infuriating thing is that our solution to this is to change the clock instead of just changing our schedules. It's completely ridiculous.

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#58

Post by XorNot »

Lvl999Noob wrote: post #43
jwalton wrote: post #27

Another reason not to use EST/EDT is that they are overspecifying the time zone in most cases. If you ask for output in EDT, but the date is in December (which is not part of daylight savings time) then should the date output be UTC-4 or UTC-5? Technically you asked for EDT. Using EST as a shortcut isn’t a good idea, either - most software will “know what you mean” and use EST or EDT appropriately... except, both The…

On the topic of DST... can you explain why some countries use DST? Anytime I look for the reasoning of it, it says that DST helps "make better use of daytime" but how? The earth isn't gonna say "Damn! These people changed their clocks. I better change by rotation and give them more sun time." Whether you have DST or not, you still have the same amount of time with sunlight in a day.

For the same reason that work from home turns out to be viable for a huge number of people, and the main reason office's are as big as they are is because middle managers don't believe work happens if they don't watch someone sit in an office chair.

There's no possible way businesses are going to adjust their hours twice yearly to let employees get more sunshine, but DST does that effectively by ensuring official timekeeping gets moved about on them.

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#59

Post by throw0101a »

phlo wrote: post #36
jwalton wrote: post #27

Another reason not to use EST/EDT is that they are overspecifying the time zone in most cases. If you ask for output in EDT, but the date is in December (which is not part of daylight savings time) then should the date output be UTC-4 or UTC-5? Technically you asked for EDT. Using EST as a shortcut isn’t a good idea, either - most software will “know what you mean” and use EST or EDT appropriately... except, both The…

> If you ask for output in EDT, but the date is in December (which is not part of daylight savings time) then should the date output be UTC-4 or UTC-5? EST is always UTC-4 and EDT is always UTC-5. Both of these exist throughout the year. The only change happening in Spring/Autumn is that some places change which time zone they currently observe. This also addresses the second problem that you outlined. As long as the…

> EST is always UTC-4 and EDT is always UTC-5.

Except you have those reversed. :)

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#60

Post by ceilingcorner »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #57
throw0101a wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The closer one is to the poles, the more the number of hours of daylight shifts over the seasons. So at/near the equator, in a place like Panama, you will get roughly 12 hours of daylight in both the December and June Solstices. * https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/panama/panama Whereas in the Edinburgh you go from having 7 hours of daylight in December to over 17 hours in June: * https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/edin…

The infuriating thing is that our solution to this is to change the clock instead of just changing our schedules. It's completely ridiculous.

...no, actually it’s extremely logical. Changing clocks society wide is far easier than getting every single person and company to adjust its schedule.
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