Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD • Hacker News Board

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#51

Post by nikisweeting » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:21 AM UTC

magila wrote: post #42

brian_cunnie wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noticed that, too: the author doesn't mention the many-splendored versions of *BSD. My personal favorite is FreeBSD. I like Linux, but I have mixed feelings about systemd, especially when I discovered that systemd runs its own DNS server, which prevents the DNS server I wrote from binding to port 53 using INADDR_ANY. Instead, I had to write code to enumerate the interfaces & corresponding IP addresses & bind to eac…

You know you turn that DNS server off by adding "DNSStubListener=no" to /etc/systemd/resolved.conf right?

But why does it need to exist in the first place when my system has exactly 0 change in behavior when it's disabled?

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#52

Post by willismichael » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

dTal wrote: post #38

axaxs wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where I sit. I like systemd as an init system. I find its syslog replacement unneeded overreach, and its DNS server absolute insanity. So when asked if I like systemd, it's a loaded question. It's great but absolutely sucks, both.

systemd isn't an init system and doesn't pretend to be one [note] - it's OS middleware with ambitions to becoming a distro unto itself. The systemd project assumes responsibility for numerous aspects of the system that have no technical justification for being under the same project umbrella. You might like systemd-homed, for instance, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the functions of init. Calling it a…

Honest question, if nobody likes systemd, then why is it still around and why is it so difficult for me to find a distro that hasn't adopted it?

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#53

Post by LukeShu » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

brian_cunnie wrote: post #25

vinkelhake wrote: post #14

"Linux is fragmented", and then goes on to list Free, Open, Net, Dragonfly and avoids listing a few more. "Poettering creepware". Web developers who use Google Analytics are "stupid". This is emotion-driven drivel.

I noticed that, too: the author doesn't mention the many-splendored versions of *BSD. My personal favorite is FreeBSD. I like Linux, but I have mixed feelings about systemd, especially when I discovered that systemd runs its own DNS server, which prevents the DNS server I wrote from binding to port 53 using INADDR_ANY. Instead, I had to write code to enumerate the interfaces & corresponding IP addresses & bind to eac…

You don't have to use systemd-resolved. Most distros have been using systemd but not systemd-resolved for years. Fedora only just started using systemd-resolved by default in the most recent release.

It's like, yeah, that's a funny thing to also live in systemd.git, but systemd-resolved is functionally a separate product from systemd.

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#54

Post by jamiesonbecker » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:23 AM UTC

magila wrote: post #42

brian_cunnie wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noticed that, too: the author doesn't mention the many-splendored versions of *BSD. My personal favorite is FreeBSD. I like Linux, but I have mixed feelings about systemd, especially when I discovered that systemd runs its own DNS server, which prevents the DNS server I wrote from binding to port 53 using INADDR_ANY. Instead, I had to write code to enumerate the interfaces & corresponding IP addresses & bind to eac…

You know you turn that DNS server off by adding "DNSStubListener=no" to /etc/systemd/resolved.conf right?

Then.. why does it exist? More importantly, why is it enabled by default?

Does systemd want to be an init system? A logging system? a dnsmasq replacement?

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#55

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

chongli wrote: post #30

throwawayboise wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article addresses that. Companies are free to do whatever they want with BSD and as such they don't need to try to affect the way things are going. If that wasn't the case we would possible see, for example, Sony trying very hard to influence the development of FreeBSD because they use that in their PlayStation products.

And yet they do anyway. Netflix contributed network code to FreeBSD. In so doing, they took code they had developed and handed over the maintenance to the FreeBSD team. I think this is the biggest incentive companies have for making contributions to open source: they don't want to pay engineers to keep maintaining their own patches forever.

[deleted]

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#56

Post by dreamcompiler » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

vitus wrote: post #32

> DNS over HTTPS is by itself bad enough, and highly criticized with good reason The criticisms of DoH seem to be around removing the ability of third parties to snoop on your DNS queries. Am I missing something here? Like, yes, some of the use cases outlined in the linked wiki article [0] are arguably legitimate (parental controls, cybersecurity identification of C&C nodes), but then we quickly move into murkier ter…

Yes you are missing something.

DoH on-by-default means that I as a sysadmin -- for my family, enterprise, or even just my own computer -- no longer have the ability to easily specify how DNS works for the systems under my control. Maybe I run a PiHole; maybe I run a parental control DNS server; maybe I'm better at privacy protection than Mozilla and Cloudflare are.

Tough luck; now I'm no longer able to configure all my systems to use my DNS server over DHCP. I can't even manually set the global DNS server for one computer any more. Now I have to manually set preferences on every instance of Firefox (at least to verify that DoH is truly off), and every other application that adopts DoH one at a time.

The goal of DoH for preventing snooping by ISPs is fine. It's the implementation with hardwired per-application resolver hosts that's bad.

Edit: There's a way to tell Firefox to disable DoH at the network level [0] but AFAIK this is just a Mozilla thing; it's not an RFC. Will other browsers and apps adopt this mechanism? Who knows?

[0] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/configuring-networks-di...

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#57

Post by raverbashing » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #41

vinkelhake wrote: post #14

"Linux is fragmented", and then goes on to list Free, Open, Net, Dragonfly and avoids listing a few more. "Poettering creepware". Web developers who use Google Analytics are "stupid". This is emotion-driven drivel.

I really don’t get the weird cult of people seemingly obsessed with Lennart. The man sets out to solve really hard problems in the Linux desktop space, isn’t afraid of tackling complexity when it shows up in the problem domain, and is obsessed with correctness. That last one gets him in trouble from people who want him to be more pragmatic but I personally really appreciate it. I really admire him for being the poste…

I can agree with not taking things personally but "obsessed with correctness" is not how I would describe systemd or PA

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#58

Post by Spivak » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

brian_cunnie wrote: post #25

vinkelhake wrote: post #14

"Linux is fragmented", and then goes on to list Free, Open, Net, Dragonfly and avoids listing a few more. "Poettering creepware". Web developers who use Google Analytics are "stupid". This is emotion-driven drivel.

I noticed that, too: the author doesn't mention the many-splendored versions of *BSD. My personal favorite is FreeBSD. I like Linux, but I have mixed feelings about systemd, especially when I discovered that systemd runs its own DNS server, which prevents the DNS server I wrote from binding to port 53 using INADDR_ANY. Instead, I had to write code to enumerate the interfaces & corresponding IP addresses & bind to eac…

I swear at this point there is not a soul that really understand the low level pieces of a Linux distro fit together.

systemd-resolved is a separate project from systemd whose only relation is that it’s in the same repo. It’s up to your distro builder to decide if they want to use it. And also up to your distro if they want to use the stub resolver. It’s not necessary for systemd-resolved to work. The reason they have the stub listener is because on Linux every application is supposed to use glibc nss to resolve names but there are real-world applications that try, incorrectly, to parse resolv.conf and do dns queries themselves. This breaks things if your assumption is that all dns queries are going through systemd-resolved. And this project isn’t the first. Ubuntu and others have used dnsmasq as the stub resolver for the same reason. Using just the dns nss module and resolv.conf is fundamentally broken and at this point unfixable when you are connected to multiple networks or with separate dns or split tunnel VPNing. You have to provide your own, smarter, nss module and/or use a stub resolver to cover these use-cases.

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#59

Post by anonymousiam » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:25 AM UTC

vitus wrote: post #32

> DNS over HTTPS is by itself bad enough, and highly criticized with good reason The criticisms of DoH seem to be around removing the ability of third parties to snoop on your DNS queries. Am I missing something here? Like, yes, some of the use cases outlined in the linked wiki article [0] are arguably legitimate (parental controls, cybersecurity identification of C&C nodes), but then we quickly move into murkier ter…

If you want to prevent MitM attacks, run a local DNS server with DNSSEC. DoH is a trend in the wrong direction. The more IoT garbage begins using DoH, the less control over your privacy you will have. Solutions like pi-hole are rendered useless by DoH.

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#60

Post by sjwright » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:25 AM UTC

dTal wrote: post #38

axaxs wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where I sit. I like systemd as an init system. I find its syslog replacement unneeded overreach, and its DNS server absolute insanity. So when asked if I like systemd, it's a loaded question. It's great but absolutely sucks, both.

systemd isn't an init system and doesn't pretend to be one [note] - it's OS middleware with ambitions to becoming a distro unto itself. The systemd project assumes responsibility for numerous aspects of the system that have no technical justification for being under the same project umbrella. You might like systemd-homed, for instance, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the functions of init. Calling it a…

I just can't get myself worked up over systemd. Every in-principle objection I have to systemd also applies to the Linux kernel itself—but orders of magnitude "worse."

Principles aside, in reality, systemd has been a complete non-issue for me and a massive quality of life improvement for Linux as a desktop operating system.