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Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

theatlantic.com

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Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#51

Post by xiphias2 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #45
xiphias2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange what you write about Switzerland, it's supposed to be the 4th best country in number of vaccinations (at 4%). Is that a lie? At the same time I understand that pregnant people don't get vaccines, as the vaccine was not tested on pregnant people and it's hard to know the effects on the babies. It makes sense to skip them and get to herd immunity without them instead of harming the baby.

I don't know if its a lie, just saying what I see around me. That friend isn't pregnant yet but planning soon, but at the most risky doctor job one could have with covid, in biggest hospital, and still unable to get vaccinated. My wife is pregnant, and as you write they don't get vaccination, just hope for the best and not catching it (since it has some potentially pretty nasty effects on pregnancy).

I see, that sounds very strange. Switzerland is planning to vaccinate all adults by summer, but as we see not everything goes as planned.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#52

Post by ipsocannibal »

satiani wrote: post #44

I don’t understand why there isn’t a simple system where you register your interest in vaccine, age, medical conditions and leave your contact info to be called in when your shot is ready.

Because the federal government, which contols the nations vaccine supply, under the Trump administration didn't bother to build one. You get the government you vote for and in 2016 a guy was elected that never took the job seriously. Solving these types of large logistical and organization problems takes time, effort, planning, and will none of which were ever seriously invested by the one institution with the power manage the problem. So now you have a 50 state solution to the problem which means some states will get it right either because of low populations or generally better health systems. But most won't, think high population states with large impoverished urban areas and high levels of political division. Under these circumstances it seems like a foregone conclusion that no simple system like this would exist.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#53

Post by SllX »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #37
SllX wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already built a system in Washington to keep track of where every single dose anywhere in the country is and redistribute it as necessary. I take the existence of this system at-all to be emblematic of the general failure of government vaccine distribution. I’ll offer up my reasoning if asked, but I would like you to think about why I say this and what type of accounting we should actually be practicing.

I’d love to hear your reasoning and alternatives.

Throw the computer system out the window onto the car of the guy who thought spending time and resources on this was a good idea.

All we care about is how many people were vaccinated, and how many doses are thrown out before use.

Obviously we care about how many are vaccinated. Why do we care how many are thrown out? To show where and how we failed. We didn’t get SARS. This is our SARS moment, but more importantly, we are in the process of proving out an entire new class of vaccines that were never used before, are easier to produce on a per virus basis than any vaccine before it, and more effective than what we did before using traditional methods. So where are we failing in the distribution, and why?

Three forms you can file electronically with less info than a birth certificate.

1. Patient ID. First dose or second dose, and the address of the Office they were vaccinated.

2. Vaccine disposal. Basically a summary of how many were thrown out and why these doses were wasted.

3. A reorder form.

At this point we have dumped trillions of dollars of relief into the economy with a promise from House Democrats to dump trillions more. Trying to keep a perfect record of where every single dose is in the country rather than just injecting them in anyone who wants a vaccine is expensive overhead and wasted effort.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#54

Post by ipsocannibal »

ahelwer wrote: post #9
sova wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, just lock people in their apartments against their will and they cannot infect other people, genius

Option one: Pay people to stay home, deliver them supplies & food, call them daily for medical checkup. Three weeks later everyone is free. If community spread is ever detected again, perform a similar citywide lockdown and test everyone (in a city of tens of millions of people) three times. The bureaucrat responsible for overseeing that city is fired. Option two: A year+ of half-assed rolling lockdowns with ever-rec…

Option one sounds great theoretically. Which counties have successfully implemented those policies?

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#55

Post by underseacables »

boardwaalk wrote: post #46

I’m glad I’m not worried about getting off the plane such that I stand up and wait for 10 minutes, hunched over, waiting for people to shuffle out.

If it weren’t for the flight attendant and pilots unions you wouldn’t have to wear a mask. However, if it weren’t for deregulation, you might not have to hunch over as much, or as long, waiting.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#56

Post by dehrmann »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #15
dehrmann wrote: post #3

I get it, but you've made it 11 months already, case counts are falling rapidly, spring is coming, and people getting vaccinated will drive down new cases even more. Calm down and wait another month or two.

It is hard for people to calm down when some scientific advisers to governments are telling newspapers that social distancing must last until the entire world is vaccinated, to prevent new COVID mutations, so they recommend the status quo until 2024–2026. Also, governments have handed virtually all authority over lifting lockdown to their health ministers, who generally prioritize saving every possible life above all…

> governments have handed virtually all authority over lifting lockdown to their health ministers

This does worry me, but in Europe and the US, the consensus seems to be that it's not possible to stop it, so settle on some sort of a "live with it" strategy. During the fall, I remember Europeans looking at the US and saying "they just needed a real lockdown." As winter came and case counts rose again in Europe, there wasn't much of an appetite for another round of hard lockdowns.

My best guess for developed countries is that things start getting back to normal by late summer one way or another because either vaccines are effective enough and bring down the case counts or they weren't, but people are willing to accept the risk and move on. Support for strict government policies only works if there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#57

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

SllX wrote: post #48
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're kinda proving the point here. The source article is about exactly the opposite problem: Maryland is widely distributing vaccines rather than micromanaging fairness, so there are a lot of random tricks available for people to get vaccines faster, and the author is frustrated about that. When there's no perfect strategy available, we can and should push for continual improvement, but there's a point where we hav…

My point is the entire process is over-bureaucratized. If you want to prioritize anyone, with COVID specifically you come to two conclusions about who you might want to prioritize first: the very old and any employee involved in front-line healthcare work. For the former, there’s a Federally administered healthcare system specifically for anyone 65+. For the latter: they work within, are affiliated with, or have rela…

I understand your point, but the strategy you're describing is exactly what the author is frustrated by. Maryland doesn't have "stupid rules about who is allowed to get an appointment", and all doses which become available are quickly claimed - as a consequence, if she wants to claim a dose for her parents, she has to run around at odd hours checking with everyone who might have new availability. Until we have enough shots available for everyone who wants one, there's no way to make everyone happy.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#58

Post by throwawayboise »

legulere wrote: post #23

> America’s distribution plan is no more fair or logical than a Soviet-style queue for cabbage. I don't see how a capitalist distribution system (if you have money you get it earlier) is in any way more fair than a system which is based on need. Capitalism's strength is in extracting resources and increasing production and efficiency in things there is a good market for. But it's not good at all in distributing thing…

> not good at all in distributing things

Amazon, FedEx, Wal Mart, others might disagree.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#59

Post by ipsocannibal »

ahelwer wrote: post #21
tinus_hn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately option one is the fantasy solution that doesn’t actually work. It has been tried. It doesn’t work.

Option one is China's & Vietnam's strategy for combating the virus, which has been extremely effective. Parts of it were also implemented in nearby non-communist countries such as Taiwan.

The countries where its generally accepted that the government has dictatorial power to imprison at will used its imprisoning prowess to beat a virus and lauded it as a model to be replicated. Good to know.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#60

Post by ipsocannibal »

throwawayboise wrote: post #58
legulere wrote: post #23

> America’s distribution plan is no more fair or logical than a Soviet-style queue for cabbage. I don't see how a capitalist distribution system (if you have money you get it earlier) is in any way more fair than a system which is based on need. Capitalism's strength is in extracting resources and increasing production and efficiency in things there is a good market for. But it's not good at all in distributing thing…

> not good at all in distributing things Amazon, FedEx, Wal Mart, others might disagree.

UPS. You can't forget big brown for logistics.
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