>a workable plan that enables more free speech, [...] That approach: build protocols, not platforms. To be clear, this is an approach that would bring us back to the way the internet used to be. The early internet involved many different protocols—instructions and standards that anyone could then use to build a compatible interface. As I've commented before[1][2], discussing protocols and advocating for them is a pop…
The reason people don't run nntp servers is the same reason I don't go to Antarctica to socialize. The reason people use github is because it it there. > It's because "free & open protocols" weren't really the issue! Why do VC funded startups build platforms? Because that's how you get the gate-keeping function. Protocols do not get funded because they do not let you exclude. Chiding others for not making progress on…
Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)
51–60 of 285 posts
Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)
#52Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)
#53When something (in this case technology) becomes a problem, I'm not usually in favor of trying to add more of that same thing to solve the problem. Similarly, if a platform is going to control speech, I don't see the point of adding more control to control Facebook's control. I think this is a structural rabbit hole that constantly repeats itself in our institutions.
And even if "we" did apply more technology, who exactly is going to lead this effort? If we drop solutions with n more protocols in the market, the same 3 companies will end up owning the content on them. And through some remarkable defiance of probability, all of those companies will act in identical lockstep when it comes to behavior and policies. Of course, there's no evidence of collusion, they just happen to be culturally identical in every way. And that is reasonably believable given how few actual people are involved in running the organizations.
"Some feel that these platforms have become cesspools of trolling, bigotry, and hatred."
Some? I'm assuming (possibly wrongly) that this sentence is intended to express one particular side's feeling about the other particular side. But I think everyone feels this. Both sides make arguments (some more data driven than others) that show how the other side is motivated by hate. In fact, the prevalence of the conviction that love, compassion, and morality exist exclusively on one side appears to be a large part of the problem.
There are over 3000 counties in the US and if you colored them by their political and cultural sentiment and look at the map of the country, you would see the full diversity and distribution of ideas - at least geographically. The lack of this level of resolution on Internet platforms is the problem imo.
Maybe there can't be 3000 platforms. But there can be more than 3-5 groupings of capital that control them all and they can be more culturally diverse. Not sure about the value of being more protocol diverse.
Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm shocked (/s) that Silicon Valley's brand of libertarianism led to five companies dominating everything and then pulling up the ladder behind them by abandoning open standards in favor or proprietary silos.
Expect to be down voted for speaking such heresy on HN.
Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)
#55>a workable plan that enables more free speech, [...] That approach: build protocols, not platforms. To be clear, this is an approach that would bring us back to the way the internet used to be. The early internet involved many different protocols—instructions and standards that anyone could then use to build a compatible interface. As I've commented before[1][2], discussing protocols and advocating for them is a pop…
I pay an email provider because I don't want to deal with configuring Dovecot, but I don't use Gmail because I don't want the risk that some algo deletes my account, and I'm glad that's (so far still) an option.
Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
I look at it this way: 10-15 years ago many of us were complaining the web was being turned into TV. I think that was basically right, and now social media is rediscovering the other things that made TV work, which is that you can't just continually show the most upsetting/titillating media 24/7. And with the benefit of hindsight, I don't believe Twitter/Facebook have the obligation to be the venue where we exercise…
> It's time to move on and use those services for keeping in touch with old classmates or whatever they are good at and develop platforms that are good for holding serious conversations. The challenge is, there's no money in that. The money is in serving ads, which depends on serving up upsetting/titillating media 24/7. Paywalls can't work because the barrier to entry keeps you from getting a sufficient network effec…
But they already have a giant global community. They now need to sustain it, that's a very different task and one better served by moderation. They are already being out-competed on how extreme a community can be by the various newcomers.
They are the incumbent now, with the incumbent's advantages. What remains to be seen is if they will move to take on the incumbent's responsibilities (which they have done here and there, and seem to be doing more of) or if they'll shirk it (which they did for far too long). In the long term they will make more money in a world that isn't on fire.
Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)
#57First, Usenet was just as much of a dumpster fire as Reddit et al. in some branches (alt. I am looking at you). The rest (comp. soc. sci. etc) were heavily self moderated.
Second, I am not sure the author is clear on what is the primary product of social media, as I see it. We, the users are the product. By moving to a protocol, there is little to no opportunity to capture private information about the product. (Not complexity, too big, or filter bubble.)
Why would a platform give up such income stream?
Am I misunderstanding what the author means by protocol here?
Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)
#58Afaict, the missing piece that undermines this is a mechanism to uniquely identify users. I don't mean that more than one entity needs to know a user's name (in fact, you could probably create a system where nobody can realistically retrieve a user's name), or personal information. If you don't know whether you've seen an account before, though, how can you effectively deter bad actors? Not much of a ban if someone c…
But it's not a missing technical piece. It's just that FOSS is terrible at paying experts to do the work necessary to design a service usable by non-technical folks.
In other words, I think people look at the problem you've described and assume that it must be open research because no unpaid dev has posted a hobby project to Github to solve it. But that wouldn't be an accurate conclusion-- in fact everyone has used Google's annoying hairball of sophisticated, hidden techniques which solves pretty much this problem (and probably other problems as well).
You wouldn't need anything as sophisticated as that. But you do need to pay experts the going rate to design, implement, test, and tweak such a service.
If any FOSS orgs had the foresight and funding to do this, I believe it would reveal that all commercial social media networks including Reddit haven't "solved" this problem simply because it isn't in their financial interest to do so.
Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)
#59It's still so bizarre to me to see techno-libertarians act like a few extremely popular social media platforms run by private companies is some kind of government, and that their first amendment rights are somehow under attack.
Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
The left wing is still not wanting to rise up against censorship because they believe it's still benefiting them, since BigTech (+M5M) is their leftist ally...for now. What they need to realize is that once you give Tyrannical Control over to your leaders (governments, or BigTech censors), because you consider them benevolent today, it's foolish because they won't be benevolent forever. Our founding fathers knew powe…
[flagged]
Then when some actual peaceful protesters go to a legitimate politically organized rally in clown outfits in Washington brandishing American flags and are literally ushered into the buildings by security it's portrayed by the lying media as serious military coup attempt. To quote Biden: "Gimme a break man."