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For Hannah Arendt, totalitarianism is rooted in loneliness

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Re: For Hannah Arendt, totalitarianism is rooted in loneliness

#51

Post by frongpik »

hexxiiiz wrote: post #15

"But in order to make individuals susceptible to ideology, you must first ruin their relationship to themselves and others by making them sceptical and cynical, so that they can no longer rely upon their own judgment" As much as I am sure this does happen quite a lot, something that does not get enough emphasis is how much people's relationships to themselves erode under the very ordinary conditions of quotidian life…

That's a clever observation. To put it simpler, a dictator is a magnet that aligns individual resentments of citizens. People can't align resentment themselves without an external guide. But loneliness isn't the cause of resentment, it's rather the feeling of being excluded. Without the anchor of inner philosophy, one can be easily manipulated into building up the resentment and directing it at a false target.

Re: For Hannah Arendt, totalitarianism is rooted in loneliness

#52

Post by PaulHoule »

motohagiography wrote: post #25
hexxiiiz wrote: post #15

"But in order to make individuals susceptible to ideology, you must first ruin their relationship to themselves and others by making them sceptical and cynical, so that they can no longer rely upon their own judgment" As much as I am sure this does happen quite a lot, something that does not get enough emphasis is how much people's relationships to themselves erode under the very ordinary conditions of quotidian life…

I'm over-commenting on this thread, but this is a pet topic of mine. A controversial observation of hers was that both fascism and communism were mere national movements, limited to their nation states, where what distinguished totalitarianism as a new form itself was using those nations as stepping stones and vessels for global domination. She gives some examples of totalitarian leaders rejecting both of these ideol…

If anything the socialist movement foundered in the 1920s in that internationalism didn't sell politically.

For instance, Lenin and Co immediately surrendered to the Germans because "it is not our war" and the Germans said "Great! Here's our list of demands!" and it was an embarrassment given that Germany lost the war a month later.

See the Chris Harman classic

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/lost-revolution-chris-harma...

to see what went down in Germany afterwards.

Re: For Hannah Arendt, totalitarianism is rooted in loneliness

#53

Post by yrimaxi »

platz wrote: post #48
rusk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest all I think I was really driving at is that he sets the tone in the first sentence that he’s uninformed about what he’s talking about. I kind of get the impression also that he’s trying to be divisive rather than understand the issues at hand. I kind of feel he goes against the hacker ethic on both points ...

> your point relies on the assumption that neoliberalism is left wing, when this is not true I didn't say that all neoliberals were left wing. I said that there were some people on the the left that were neoliberals. Please understand this difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism#United_States > Early roots of neoliberalism were laid in the 1970s during the Carter administration, with deregulation of t…

d

Re: For Hannah Arendt, totalitarianism is rooted in loneliness

#54

Post by platz »

yrimaxi wrote: post #53
platz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your point relies on the assumption that neoliberalism is left wing, when this is not true I didn't say that all neoliberals were left wing. I said that there were some people on the the left that were neoliberals. Please understand this difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism#United_States > Early roots of neoliberalism were laid in the 1970s during the Carter administration, with deregulation of t…

d

> Deregulation, cuts to welfare, NAFTA. Again, you fail to demonstrate the left point.

"No true Scotsman"

Re: For Hannah Arendt, totalitarianism is rooted in loneliness

#55

Post by dragonwriter »

platz wrote: post #50
dragonwriter wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should be recognized that the left, especially neoliberals, has played just as much a role in atomization of the public as the right. Neoliberalism is a center-right, corporate capitalist economic ideology. It has nothing to do with the Left, which it sees (and is seen by as) an enemy. (Americans are particularly likely to get confused by this because the dominant, more centrist faction of the Democratic Party i…

> It has nothing to do with the Left Well, nothing to do with the left may be a bit of an overstatement, imho. If the "Left" is such a problematic term, then let's just agree to avoid using the term, since you seem to be of the position that the "more centrist faction of the Democratic Party" is not Left. I would assume the term "Left" includes both the "more centrist faction of the Democratic Party" and the more lef…

> since you seem to be of the position that the "more centrist faction of the Democratic Party" is not Left.

It's not.

Also, neoliberalism was the economic ideology of the dominant faction of the Republican Party prior to Trump, too, and few would call them “the Left". (There were differences in social ideology, of course, between Republicans and Democrats.) Hence the “neoliberal consensus” of the 1990s and beyond.

Re: For Hannah Arendt, totalitarianism is rooted in loneliness

#56

Post by platz »

dragonwriter wrote: post #55
platz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has nothing to do with the Left Well, nothing to do with the left may be a bit of an overstatement, imho. If the "Left" is such a problematic term, then let's just agree to avoid using the term, since you seem to be of the position that the "more centrist faction of the Democratic Party" is not Left. I would assume the term "Left" includes both the "more centrist faction of the Democratic Party" and the more lef…

> since you seem to be of the position that the "more centrist faction of the Democratic Party" is not Left. It's not. Also, neoliberalism was the economic ideology of the dominant faction of the Republican Party prior to Trump, too, and few would call them “the Left". (There were differences in social ideology, of course, between Republicans and Democrats.) Hence the “neoliberal consensus” of the 1990s and beyond.

I don't think anyone is confusing the Republican party with the left.

However it seems who gets to be in "the left" and who doesn't seems to be very up for debate these days.

I'm fairly certain if you asked anyone in the 90's if the clinton administration was on the left they'd answer in the affirmative.

I understand the social democratic part of the left has evolved and differentiated itself since then. This is great, but I think it problematic to retcon the history exclusively this view.

Just because the social democratic faction would like complete ownership on the term "the left" I think does not make it so, or at least can be agreed to be a subjective claim.

Re: For Hannah Arendt, totalitarianism is rooted in loneliness

#57

Post by erichocean »

It is disappointing Arendt is considered to be some kind of authority on totalitarianism (or worse still: evil). Unsurprising, though: TPTB find her conclusions useful, almost like she works backwards, telling powerful people what they want to hear…

Make of that what you will.

Re: For Hannah Arendt, totalitarianism is rooted in loneliness

#58

Post by rusk »

platz wrote: post #48
rusk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest all I think I was really driving at is that he sets the tone in the first sentence that he’s uninformed about what he’s talking about. I kind of get the impression also that he’s trying to be divisive rather than understand the issues at hand. I kind of feel he goes against the hacker ethic on both points ...

> your point relies on the assumption that neoliberalism is left wing, when this is not true I didn't say that all neoliberals were left wing. I said that there were some people on the the left that were neoliberals. Please understand this difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism#United_States > Early roots of neoliberalism were laid in the 1970s during the Carter administration, with deregulation of t…

Nope, sorry, not convinced. There’s something askew in your outlook and I think it’s affecting your ability to make your point. I’d suggest reevaluating your fundamentals and going from there. Take care brother

Re: For Hannah Arendt, totalitarianism is rooted in loneliness

#59

Post by platz »

rusk wrote: post #58
platz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your point relies on the assumption that neoliberalism is left wing, when this is not true I didn't say that all neoliberals were left wing. I said that there were some people on the the left that were neoliberals. Please understand this difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism#United_States > Early roots of neoliberalism were laid in the 1970s during the Carter administration, with deregulation of t…

Nope, sorry, not convinced. There’s something askew in your outlook and I think it’s affecting your ability to make your point. I’d suggest reevaluating your fundamentals and going from there. Take care brother

Feel free to respond with reasons for your claims, thanks and take care

Re: For Hannah Arendt, totalitarianism is rooted in loneliness

#60

Post by gabereiser »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #40
gabereiser wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. A slow toxic rot of self that erodes the family and community links until their thoughts and actions seem alien to the outside. Sounds like my ex-wife (fell victim to QAnon). :/

Since you brought it up, what factors do you think made you ex-wife susceptible to qanon ideas?

She was always susceptible to misinformation. When we moved to Central Florida a decade ago, they have what’s called “Love Bugs”. An invasive flying beetle from Central America. While on the job as a barista, someone told her they were genetically engineered at UCF. She believed him. Arguing with me that was the truth until I pointed her to science articles and Wikipedia.

Fast forward a few years and the thought of sex-trafficking rings took root. She was convinced that girls were being abducted for sex slavery and that people in government were supporting them.

This twisted even further when I confronted her about it, told her that what she thinks is real isn’t, and she immediately jumped on me for gaslighting her.

Needless to say, it was she that filed for divorce. I’m way happier now.

Those that downvoted my comment above because my ex-wife, you should meet her, she’s completely crazy now.

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