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Neil Armstrong's bootprint on the moon is now protected by U.S. law

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Re: Neil Armstrong's bootprint on the moon is now protected by U.S. law

#51

Post by HourglassFR »

masswerk wrote: post #39
HourglassFR wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The USA is more likely on a steady course of becoming increasingly less relevant to anyone but themselves. While it is certainly true that the USA is loosing it's status as the world's only superpower, it is still very much the most powerfull country and will probably stay, if not number 1, at least in the top 3 for at least the rest of our lifetime. I wouldn't call that irrelevant.

However, the US has about entirely lost their status as a model. As-is, following US legislation would require some amount of apologetic discourse anywhere outside of North America. (That the US have left the international community for the most, or, at least, have proposed to do so – especially, when it comes to treaties and jurisdiction – doesn't especially help either.)

I tend to think of the US isolationist stance as a temporary consequence of their loss of total control. Like pouty child who would prefer to pass entirely on cake than to have to share it with their siblings. The frustration to not have the final say anymore is real but reality has purchase and in the end I expect the US to sit at the conference table like everyone else. After all, with it's still mighty power, it's in a good position to negociate.

Now I might be wrong, maybe the isolasionist mentality is more profound than that. An historical argument to show how this is stance is not new is the refusal for the US to enter WWII until Japan basically forced their hand on the issue.

Re: Neil Armstrong's bootprint on the moon is now protected by U.S. law

#52

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #42
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how utterly arrogant and entitled this headline sounds. A case of "US superiority" which makes me want the Russians or the Chinese to nuke the ruddy thing just so they have some additional thing to whine about.

Your anger is making you illogical. This is a treasure of humanity’s achievement; and since there is no global governance body, it makes sense to start here.

logic has nothing to do with it, there is obviously 0 logic in wanting to nuke the moon just because Americans have set foot on it and 50+ years still keep talking about it. seriously who cares. It was just another spectacle and fuel for Reagan's wet StarWars dream: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative

apologies if I don't participate in this empire-building dream of US superiority.

it was the culmination and outcome from decades of measuring dicks between 2 super powers where one arrived quicker than the other. how is this not the same as when the DPRK is displaying their ICBM's and idiots in uniform goose stepping?

this kind of nostalgia is 50ies 60ies wishful thinking and no different than waving flags or rooting ones ego in nationality or religion. utterly backward but not unexpected for a country that values military achievements higher than the need for an affordable health care system etc.

Yeah they've been to the moon x years ago but these days they got thousands dying literally every day and 30% of the populace looks and acts like this: https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/

Re: Neil Armstrong's bootprint on the moon is now protected by U.S. law

#53

Post by masswerk »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #44
masswerk wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the US has about entirely lost their status as a model. As-is, following US legislation would require some amount of apologetic discourse anywhere outside of North America. (That the US have left the international community for the most, or, at least, have proposed to do so – especially, when it comes to treaties and jurisdiction – doesn't especially help either.)

The US stumbled into becoming a model only due to the behavior of European nations constantly fighting each other every century. Especially post Vietnam, it should never have been regarded as the model, humanity needs competing systems to better allocate risk.

On the other hand, it was exactly this loss of power, which allowed European states to overcome their long-lasting contest and to unite… Realistically, immediate post-Vietnam would have been too soon for this.

Re: Neil Armstrong's bootprint on the moon is now protected by U.S. law

#54

Post by approxim8ion »

ben_w wrote: post #17
avianlyric wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t say things like that. Someone might get the bright idea to put it on a referendum...

If I had to guess, I’d expect such a referendum to return a “join America” result and then for almost everyone to be surprised that doing so means (1) losing the Queen, (2) losing the Pound, and (3) losing essentially all gun restrictions.

>losing the Queen

Might be the only good thing to come of it.

Re: Neil Armstrong's bootprint on the moon is now protected by U.S. law

#55

Post by approxim8ion »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #52
mensetmanusman wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your anger is making you illogical. This is a treasure of humanity’s achievement; and since there is no global governance body, it makes sense to start here.

logic has nothing to do with it, there is obviously 0 logic in wanting to nuke the moon just because Americans have set foot on it and 50+ years still keep talking about it. seriously who cares. It was just another spectacle and fuel for Reagan's wet StarWars dream: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative apologies if I don't participate in this empire-building dream of US superiority. it was the c…

Most space programs are just taking military dick measuring contests to a new level. I find it hard to get invested because of this. We deserve an international space coalition that pursues open scientific and civilian goals, not this.

And it's really hard to justify the expense sometimes when there are so many problems much closer to the ground that could use the funding.

Re: Neil Armstrong's bootprint on the moon is now protected by U.S. law

#56

Post by totalZero »

tpush wrote: post #33
rendall wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who cares about a U.S. law outside of US jurisdiction? Alas, Julian Assange for one, as an Australian citizen, indicted for breaking a US law while not in the US. The recent UK court decision not to extradite him to the US nevertheless in no way disputes US standing nor jurisdiction, and he remains in custody while the US appeals. So, we're all living in America.

There's nothing unusual about this. Obviously you don't have to physically be in a country to commit a crime in that country. If I'm a German citizen residing in France hacking UK hospitals, the UK very obviously would want brought to justice, which both France and Germany would happily agree to in this case, I'd imagine.

Well, if the defense is that Assange simply received and published information, then that analogy doesn't exactly fit.

Re: Neil Armstrong's bootprint on the moon is now protected by U.S. law

#57

Post by elmo2you »

HourglassFR wrote: post #36
elmo2you wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can use this as a stepping stone to asking other countries to normalize their laws to be similar to yours You are certainly correct, if maybe only in theory. At the rate things are going, good luck with any country freely harmonizing anything with the USA. The USA is more likely on a steady course of becoming increasingly less relevant to anyone but themselves. A different president is not going to change that.…

> The USA is more likely on a steady course of becoming increasingly less relevant to anyone but themselves. While it is certainly true that the USA is loosing it's status as the world's only superpower, it is still very much the most powerfull country and will probably stay, if not number 1, at least in the top 3 for at least the rest of our lifetime. I wouldn't call that irrelevant.

> it is still very much the most powerfull country and will probably stay, if not number 1, at least in the top 3 for at least the rest of our lifetime.

That's funny. What do you really know, about where that power/wealth mostly comes from? Because last time I checked, it actually depends in almost every aspect on what the rest of the world thinks of the USA (including, not in the least important part, it's currency).

I'm even pretty sure that you would be surprised (probably even shocked) if you know how much business the USA does mostly covertly (if not clandestine) abroad, and what amounts of money are involved in that.

This is what I can tell you with a pretty good degree of certainty: during the last decade or so, plenty of the less-than-savory project, run by the USA abroad, have either dried up or been exposed/dismantled/destroyed. I have personally seen several of those go bust.

Less clear, and also with ant causation would be hard to prove, it did "miraculously" coincide with the USA ramping up their anti-Russia rhetoric.

Even a bigger step into speculative territory, one might even suspect that at least some of the turmoil at home in the USA, may have something to do with their most criminal elite no longer being as capable of getting their "fix" abroad, having to resort to exploiting the local population.

Either way though, I'm pretty convinced that most Americans overestimate how their economy has much intrinsic value .. if anything, I'd say it's more or less already bankrupt. Which is probably why we see all these wars, in order to prevent some key players from ditching the Dollar as trade/reserve currency. But that's all borrowed time.

Re: Neil Armstrong's bootprint on the moon is now protected by U.S. law

#58

Post by mensetmanusman »

approxim8ion wrote: post #55
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

logic has nothing to do with it, there is obviously 0 logic in wanting to nuke the moon just because Americans have set foot on it and 50+ years still keep talking about it. seriously who cares. It was just another spectacle and fuel for Reagan's wet StarWars dream: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative apologies if I don't participate in this empire-building dream of US superiority. it was the c…

Most space programs are just taking military dick measuring contests to a new level. I find it hard to get invested because of this. We deserve an international space coalition that pursues open scientific and civilian goals, not this. And it's really hard to justify the expense sometimes when there are so many problems much closer to the ground that could use the funding.

Exactly, government has a hard time justifying space because people point to poverty happening somewhere in the world.

Meanwhile, global internet is an exciting concept, especially if it can fund small backup civilizations (that will eventually be needed due to the heat death of the sun).

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