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My Second Brain – Zettelkasten

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Re: My Second Brain – Zettelkasten

#51

Post by abetusk »

For me, the idea is sound but the implementation always seems so cumbersome. I want something that separates the data from the display as much as possible, has an easy 'note taking' and has an easy install. One problem I always encounter is that if the interface to add notes has too much friction, I stop using it pretty quickly.

Anyway, so I created something over the weekend called 'notenox' [0]. It creates a a JSON file of relevant information, one JSON file per note, with keywords and a "special" keyword prefix called a 'title' that mimics how I've actually been taking notes (email, so the 'title' mimics an email thread). For display, I consolidate all JSON files into a single JSON file and then have it loaded into the browser with some Javascript to group by title or keyword, along with doing all cross referencing and counting on the client end.

Creating notes is done through the command line, because that's a common way I interact with my computer, with different options to create titles, links, keywords, etc. I'm sure there are many different Zettelkasten implementations out there but they always seem so clunky and cumbersome. It's not hard, so the simple use case should be simple, nor should it proprietary or locked behind a SaaS.

You can see my personal notes in action, if you like [1] (sorry, not mobile friendly!).

[0] https://github.com/abetusk/www.mechaelephant.com/tree/releas...

[1] https://mechaelephant.com/notenox

Re: My Second Brain – Zettelkasten

#52

Post by anandb143 »

martin-adams wrote: post #9

For anyone who wants the gist of Zettelkasten, I've just finished reading How to Take Smart Notes by Sönke Ahrens. Here's my rather brief summary of the process: * You create fleeting notes to capture ideas as they happen. They should be short lived notes that don't become the main store of your knowledge. * You create literature notes as your read material. These should include your own thoughts on highlighted passa…

For your third bullet point, should that be literature notes ? doesn't sound like fleeting notes should be a permanent record.

Re: My Second Brain – Zettelkasten

#53

Post by martin-adams »

anandb143 wrote: post #52
martin-adams wrote: post #9

For anyone who wants the gist of Zettelkasten, I've just finished reading How to Take Smart Notes by Sönke Ahrens. Here's my rather brief summary of the process: * You create fleeting notes to capture ideas as they happen. They should be short lived notes that don't become the main store of your knowledge. * You create literature notes as your read material. These should include your own thoughts on highlighted passa…

For your third bullet point, should that be literature notes ? doesn't sound like fleeting notes should be a permanent record.

Sorry, I think I poorly explained that. Both fleeting and literature notes need to be ‘organised’ into the slip box as permanent notes.

By organised, this means to filter, rewrite, conclude, etc into permanent notes. You don’t want to put in book extracts, or disjointed ideas without putting it in your own words.

Re: My Second Brain – Zettelkasten

#54

Post by kritiko »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #43
kritiko wrote: post #2

I’m fascinated by the rise of the Zettelkasten concept among hackers (I don’t think I’ve seen it anywhere mainstream yet) and the fundraising that Notion & Roam have accomplished. Based on the title of the post, I assume you are inspired by Tiago Forte? I’d be interested to hear more about how your notes are organized and what they help you accomplish. The idea of moving notes across 4 platforms as described in this…

Yeah I'm kinda surprised. Most people in the hacker/maker community I know are pretty disorganised like myself.. I know for me this kind of thing will never fly, it requires too much dedication. In this sense I'm not surprised it came from Germany as they love formalising things. It's really in their nature and I imagine this is also why they're so good at technological things. But for me it'll never work, I know I'l…

Your comment really resonates with me. The people who seem to push and advance these systems seem to be (broad generalizations follow)

-Academics like Andy Matuschak who are trying to create better technology for learning or do work on really hard problems

-Productivity gurus like Nat Eliason and Tiago Forte who make money selling tutorials on how to use these systems.

For “The rest of us” there could probably be some gains from using these systems... but sticky notes, texts, notes app, Slack, wherever else you jot stuff suffice, and there’s a lot of administrative overhead & habit change required. I think I am gradually implementing more “linked notes” into my work as systems like Microsoft Teams make it possible to combine a wiki and a file directory easily. But I’m skeptical that this is going to become mass market in the near term.

Re: My Second Brain – Zettelkasten

#55

Post by tin7in »

martin-adams wrote: post #9

For anyone who wants the gist of Zettelkasten, I've just finished reading How to Take Smart Notes by Sönke Ahrens. Here's my rather brief summary of the process: * You create fleeting notes to capture ideas as they happen. They should be short lived notes that don't become the main store of your knowledge. * You create literature notes as your read material. These should include your own thoughts on highlighted passa…

Thanks for the summary! Does it work in a team / collaborative environment?

Re: My Second Brain – Zettelkasten

#56

Post by Natales »

There have been several posts in recent weeks on this topic, and every time I have the same reaction: how can they all just ignore TiddlyWiki [0], that has been out there since 2004 and has evolved nicely over the years to deliver most of the same outcomes? Is it that folks just ignore prior art? or they just gravitate to the latest more sexy software? (honest question).

I've been using TiddlyWiki on and off for many years, but 2-3 years ago I moved heavily into it (the Drift [1] distribution), and I haven't looked back. To me, it has become less about the tool and more about the information, and ensuring I have complete access to it, even 20 years from now. That includes data, metadata and even the software itself, regardless of the platform or OS.

[0] https://tiddlywiki.com/

[1] https://akhater.github.io/drift/

Re: My Second Brain – Zettelkasten

#57

Post by 5tefan »

Comes up more often lately. I do have an issue with organizing myself. Scheduling more than a week ahead is close to impossible. Not due to my job but due to my messy mind. Same with note taking. Has gotten worse and I even tried learning Emacs to get the famous Org Mode. I have to admit: This is so loose it seems I can get real benefit from it. No rules to follow but I manage to stay on top of a lot of things for the first rime. Still don't get Emacs though. Zettelkasten seems to require a diligent setup and well... no.

Re: My Second Brain – Zettelkasten

#58

Post by Bakary »

There's the notorious productivity swamp that is caused by the obsession with optimizing productivity without thinking about the actual purpose behind it. This is multiplied by the ease and incentive of creating and publicizing productivity software and articles that are consumed by people in a perpetual state of insatisfaction. The result is a psychologically advanced form of procrastination and a futile attempt at control that stems from fetishizing technology.

To-do lists are for things that aren't a real priority, otherwise you would be giving them your full attention and the tracking would be unnecessary. At most, it's helpful to track administrative minutiae. If you give something your full attention, tracking will seem like a non-sequitur.

Despite all of this, I have been finding the card system outlined here to be quite useful. The key for me however was to keep to a physical pen and paper version. Keeping notes exclusively online used to prevent me from being able to address them regularly with a clear mind. Forcing myself to synthesize ideas and refer to them again has helped me move forward in projects important to me. It's not the act of writing the note that is important, but the mindset towards having ideas that you want to develop.

Ultimately, most important aspects of life are beyond any productivity hack. You can't hack meaningful relationships other than by growing as a person, nor can you hack the strength to work on things that matter every day.

In a sense, the ultimate hack is to come to terms with your mortality and use this as an impulsion to focus on what really matters to you.

Re: My Second Brain – Zettelkasten

#59

Post by qznc »

Natales wrote: post #56

There have been several posts in recent weeks on this topic, and every time I have the same reaction: how can they all just ignore TiddlyWiki [0], that has been out there since 2004 and has evolved nicely over the years to deliver most of the same outcomes? Is it that folks just ignore prior art? or they just gravitate to the latest more sexy software? (honest question). I've been using TiddlyWiki on and off for many…

You are not alone. I'm on TiddlyWiki as well: http://beza1e1.tuxen.de/tiddlywiki_notes.html

I love my two columns UI and seeing many notes at once. Why does Drift only show one note at once?

Re: My Second Brain – Zettelkasten

#60

Post by sanarothe »

tin7in wrote: post #55
martin-adams wrote: post #9

For anyone who wants the gist of Zettelkasten, I've just finished reading How to Take Smart Notes by Sönke Ahrens. Here's my rather brief summary of the process: * You create fleeting notes to capture ideas as they happen. They should be short lived notes that don't become the main store of your knowledge. * You create literature notes as your read material. These should include your own thoughts on highlighted passa…

Thanks for the summary! Does it work in a team / collaborative environment?

I've been adapting ZK ideas to my work flow. I am in med devices working on CE mark regulatory filings, and so ZK kinda fits well with my job, which is essentially to find product/process information, know stuff, and communicate it.

I think ZK works very well in team environment. I make "issue logs" - when something goes wrong, or there is a particular detail to understand, I force myself to write out the issue and resolution into ZK. (Force, because it is so much easier to just solve and move on without documenting)

If you can maintain some discipline in writing summaries and updating for yourself, this solves "we discussed x issue 2 months ago, but don't remember {some, all} details now"

I keep sublime text open to my Kasten at all times so using full text search in a database of curated notes is so much quicker than trying to find the right project folder, or searching outlook.

I don't worry about one file - one idea, I just break things up how they make sense to me. The "rules" for ZK don't entirely make sense for engineering work and must be bent to your needs.

My only lament with plain text is difficulty in using figures / images in discussions with myself.

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