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Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

heartrhythmjournal.com

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Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#51

Post by netsharc »

foepys wrote: post #24
Maxious wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FDA [1] advises "don’t carry the phone in a shirt or jacket pocket directly over the pacemaker." as well as the American Heart Association [2] "Avoid keeping your cell phone in your front chest pocket." 1: https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/cell-phones/... 2: https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/arrhythmia/prevention...

They can advise as much as they want, people just do it anyways. Same with smoking, drinking, taking drugs, etc.

One hopes people with a device keeping them alive would have an incentive to follow instructions, especially if it doesn't involve addictive substances. They also get told to avoid metal detectors, and they know to do this, so it's probably, hopefully, an easy habit to change

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#52

Post by ajuc »

antihero wrote: post #12
mrkwse wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't tend to hug their hobs though...

How many people put their phone in their "upper pockets"? Or even have "upper pockets"?

Winter coats very often have upper pockets and they are perfect for big smartphones.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#53

Post by elric »

sipos wrote: post #49
elric wrote: post #2

It's worth noting that almost anything with a magnetic field can interfere with a pacemaker, for instance induction hobs. Given the pervasiveness of, well, magnets (!), it's probably worth investing in pacemaker research which takes this into account ...

It isn't hard to make them triggered a different way, it is that it is hard to make them reliable enough and triggered a different way. They are designed to be triggered this way because it makes them simple. They are hard to service (requires surgery) and need to be triggered reliably when they are bring triggered. To achieve this, they are made as simply as possible, so have a simple trigger mechanism. Users of the…

I don't disagree, but I think you overestimate the ability of people to be careful and aware of their surroundings at all times. Or to even remember that it's an issue. Magnetic fields are invisible. A pacemaker patient I know was unaware of the (potential and low) risk posed by induction hobs. I'm sure this was explained to him, but not everyone is a pacemaker (or magnetic field) expert, nor can we expect everyone to be.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#54

Post by tener »

KineticLensman wrote: post #33
tener wrote: post #26

Seems like a failure in pacemaker design? The pacemaker kill switch should simply need much stronger magnets so there is no confusion between mobile phone or the kill switch key.

> The pacemaker kill switch should simply need much stronger magnets 'simply' here is code for 'will require changes, perhaps significant, to therapeutic processes and medical infrastructure in hospitals and other medical facilities across the planet'.

Pacemakers do need to be serviced and replaced every once in a while, so this isn't end of the world scenario. Even better, stronger magnets would work for both "old" and "new" devices, so no need for two "disable" keys.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#55

Post by bergstromm466 »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #8
colejohnson66 wrote: post #4

Editorialized title. The actual is: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets The article is about the iPhone 12. Just pointing out that magnets aren’t specific to the iPhone.

The editorialised title is both accurate to the beginning of the article, and more informative. I would have ignored the original title. Thanks to the editorialised title, I now know that magnets can mess with pacemakers.

> The editorialised title is both accurate to the beginning of the article, and more informative. I would have ignored the original title.

I don't understand why dang and other mods justify their gatekeeping when they edit the title to use 'expensive words', like they did here. It makes me feel so frustrated. Stop with the academia-industrial-complex and let people link to articles/papers how they want to. Stop with the PR already (removing 'iPhone').

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#56

Post by tener »

sipos wrote: post #47
tener wrote: post #26

Seems like a failure in pacemaker design? The pacemaker kill switch should simply need much stronger magnets so there is no confusion between mobile phone or the kill switch key.

The point is that it is fairly easy to trigger. This is considered safer than having a hard to trigger mechanism and less user caution, because of greater chance of it failing to be triggered when needed. You could have some sort of complex signal sent that switches them, but it'd make the devices much more complex, and since they are very hard to service, and need to respond when triggered, they are designed to be s…

> Users of these devices aren't supposed to have phones near them anyway.

And people are using them anyway.

I understand that the current design was made in a different world, but that doesn't mean that pacemaker design is supposed to stagnate. It definitely can and should be hardened to take into account modern environment.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#57

Post by spaetzleesser »

CapriciousCptl wrote: post #38

I'll give some context here, since I put magnets on people's pacemakers fairly often. Magnets for at least 10 years now is a standard, controlled way to trigger a secondary mode in a pacemaker/defibrillator. Almost always, if the device has both pacemaking and defibrillating capability, the magnet will turn off the ICD (although it is possible to program other behaviors). This allows clinicians to easily stop a patie…

My company’s decides can also be reset with a magnet. But the magnet has to be quite strong. I have never tried it but I would doubt that a phone is strong enough.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#58

Post by thih9 »

bergstromm466 wrote: post #55
loup-vaillant wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The editorialised title is both accurate to the beginning of the article, and more informative. I would have ignored the original title. Thanks to the editorialised title, I now know that magnets can mess with pacemakers.

> The editorialised title is both accurate to the beginning of the article, and more informative. I would have ignored the original title. I don't understand why dang and other mods justify their gatekeeping when they edit the title to use 'expensive words', like they did here. It makes me feel so frustrated. Stop with the academia-industrial-complex and let people link to articles/papers how they want to. Stop with…

I think the idea is to trust the author’s judgment and do not change the focus (here: “phones containing magnets” vs “iPhone 12”) of the original article, especially in an attempt to make the title stand out more or get more views.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#59

Post by JohnBooty »

antihero wrote: post #12
mrkwse wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't tend to hug their hobs though...

How many people put their phone in their "upper pockets"? Or even have "upper pockets"?

A lot of newer (like, last 5-6 years?) jackets have an outer upper chest pocket.

ex: https://oldnavy.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=3397220020504&...

It's the most convenient place for a phone on your person.

Easier than pants pockets if you're sitting down. No fumbling with inside jacket pockets. And you can use your "normal" jacket pockets to keep your hands warm without worrying about your phone falling out.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#60

Post by treeman79 »

CapriciousCptl wrote: post #38

I'll give some context here, since I put magnets on people's pacemakers fairly often. Magnets for at least 10 years now is a standard, controlled way to trigger a secondary mode in a pacemaker/defibrillator. Almost always, if the device has both pacemaking and defibrillating capability, the magnet will turn off the ICD (although it is possible to program other behaviors). This allows clinicians to easily stop a patie…

Reminds me of the lady who had to be held upside down to live.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/vital-signs-the-woma...

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