I've been thinking hard about decentralized content moderation, especially around chatrooms, for years. More specifically because I'm building a large, chatroom-like service for TV. I think it's evident from Facebook, Twitter, et al that human moderation of very dynamic situations is incredibly hard, maybe even impossible. I've been brewing up strategies of letting the community itself moderate because a machine real…
The problem is obviously that people very often do not want what they say they want. When a man says he supports freedom of speech, he isn't thinking about the speech that he wishes to limit as he finds it so abhorrent, and where that line lies differs from one man to the other. Such initiatives fail, as even when men come together and admit they allow for the most abhorrent of opinions to be censored, they seldom re…
Decentralised content moderation
51–60 of 135 posts
Re: Decentralised content moderation
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly after seeing the state of most subreddits (aka they become echo-chamber of whatever the main moderators find "worth of value" and very toxic about whatever is against their idea), community self-moderation seems a total failure.
Reddit still relies on human moderators, admins, etc. What I'm talking about is a purely community driven moderation scheme where, through various algorithms, the community dictates what is and isn't acceptable.
That was originally the intent of reddit, that people would downvote unconstructive comments, but that quickly turns into the community "moderating" away anything they disagree with, and enforcing an echochamber.
I don't think communities can have enough objectivity to effectively moderate themselves.
Re: Decentralised content moderation
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is obviously that people very often do not want what they say they want. When a man says he supports freedom of speech, he isn't thinking about the speech that he wishes to limit as he finds it so abhorrent, and where that line lies differs from one man to the other. Such initiatives fail, as even when men come together and admit they allow for the most abhorrent of opinions to be censored, they seldom re…
Do women have this problem as well?
Re: Decentralised content moderation
#54I can't even get to the heart of the poster's argument. That's because the shitty state of all current social media software defines "anybody" as:
* a single user making statements in earnest
* a contractor tacitly working on behalf of some company
* an employee or contractor working on behalf of a nation state
* a botnet controlled by a company or nation state
It's so bad that you can witness the failure in realtime on, say, Reddit. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has skimmed comments and thought, "Gee, that's a surprisingly reaction from lots of respondents." Then go back even 30 minutes later and the overwhelming reaction is now the opposite, with many comments in the interim about new or suspicious accounts and lots of moderation of the initial astroturfing effort.
Those of us who have some idea of the scope of the problem (hopefully) become skeptical enough to resist rabbit-holes. But if you have no idea of the scope (or even the problem itself), you can easily get caught in a vicious cycle of being fed a diet of propaganda that is perhaps 80% outright fake news.
As long as the state of the art remains this shitty (and there are plenty of monetary incentives for it to remain this way), what's the point of smearing that mendacity across a federated system?
Re: Decentralised content moderation
#55Any system where any rando can post any random thing with no gates is going to be much more of a slog to moderate than one where there are several gates that imply the person is acting in good faith.
Re: Decentralised content moderation
#56Let's unpack this:
Axiom: a kind of naive utopian belief [exists that asserts] that more speech is always better. But I think we have learnt in the last decade that this is not the case.
False premise. The "naive belief", based on the empirical evidence of history, is that prioritizing the supression of speech to address social issues is the hallmark of authoritarian systems.Martin also claims "we have learned" something that he is simply asserting as fact. My lesson from the last 3 decades has been that it was a huge mistake to let media ownership be concentrated in the hands of a few. We used to have laws against this in the 90s.
Axiom: By "we" as in "we want", Martin means the community of likeminded people, aka the dreaded "filter bubble" or "community value system".
Who is this "we", Martin? Theorem: If we want technologies to help build the type of society that we want to live in, then certain abusive types of behaviour must be restricted.
We already see that the "we" of Martin is a restricted subset of "we the Humanity". There are "we" communities that disagree with Martin's on issues ranging from: the fundamental necessity for freedom of thougth and conscience; the positive value of diversity of thoughts; the positive value of unorthodox ("radical") thought; the fundamental identity of the concept of "community" with "shared values"; etc. Q.E.D.: Thus, content moderation is needed.
Give the man a PhD.--
So here is a parable of a man named Donald Knuth. This Donald, while a highly respected and productive contributing member of the 'Community of Computer Scientists of America' [ACM, etc.], also sadly entertains irrational beliefs that "we" "know" to be superstitious non-sense.
The reason that this otherwise sane man entertains this nonsensical thoughts is because of the "filter bubble" of the community he was raised in.
Of course, to this day, Donald Knuth has never tried to force his views in the ACM on other ACM members, many of whom are devout athiests. And should Donald Knuth ever try to preach his religion in ACM, we would expect respectful but firm "community filter bubble" action of ACM telling Mr. Knuth to keep his religious views for his religious community.
But, "[i]f we want technologies to help build the type of society that we want to live in" -- and my fellow "we", do "we" not agree that there is no room for Donald Knuth's religious nonsense in "our type of society"? -- would it not be wise to ensure that the tragedy that befell the otherwise thoughtful and rational Donald Knuth could happen to other poor unsuspecting people who happen to be born and raised in some "fringe" community?
"Thus, content moderation is needed."
Re: Decentralised content moderation
#57It's pretty obvious that the tech crowd right now is so intoxicated by its own groupthink that these attempts to come up with "solutions" are going to have awful results. You don't even know what the problem really is. "I fear that many decentralised web projects are designed for censorship resistance not so much because they deliberately want to become hubs for neo-nazis, but rather out of a kind of naive utopian be…
Re: Decentralised content moderation
#58It's pretty obvious that the tech crowd right now is so intoxicated by its own groupthink that these attempts to come up with "solutions" are going to have awful results. You don't even know what the problem really is. "I fear that many decentralised web projects are designed for censorship resistance not so much because they deliberately want to become hubs for neo-nazis, but rather out of a kind of naive utopian be…
IMO this is a great point. Social medias as they exist today are broken because they have been engineered on the assumption to make money on ads. Making money on ads works by engineering around virality, engagement and influencing.
Another thing that McLuhan teaches though is that actually the (social) media is the message. And ultimately this lead to a Viking dude standing in the US capitol.
Now, that whole situation was awful. But it was also hilarious. In social media, this was barely a meme that lived on for a few hours. Whereas within the ancient system of democracy, an intrusion into the parlament is breaking some sacret rules. And there, surely the incident will cast long winding consequences.
To cut to the chase: Social media outcomes have to be viewed wearing a social media hat. Same for real-life. In this case, gladly. Another great case were this was true was Kony 2012, where essentially all the Slacktivism lead to nothing.
Re: Decentralised content moderation
#59I've been thinking hard about decentralized content moderation, especially around chatrooms, for years. More specifically because I'm building a large, chatroom-like service for TV. I think it's evident from Facebook, Twitter, et al that human moderation of very dynamic situations is incredibly hard, maybe even impossible. I've been brewing up strategies of letting the community itself moderate because a machine real…
Re: Decentralised content moderation
#60It's pretty obvious that the tech crowd right now is so intoxicated by its own groupthink that these attempts to come up with "solutions" are going to have awful results. You don't even know what the problem really is. "I fear that many decentralised web projects are designed for censorship resistance not so much because they deliberately want to become hubs for neo-nazis, but rather out of a kind of naive utopian be…
Book Review: Technopoly https://scott.london/reviews/postman.html
Interview with Neil Postman - Technopoly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbAPtGYiRvg