How the Canadian Tech Scene Encourages Finite Gameplay • Hacker News Board

Re: How the Canadian Tech Scene Encourages Finite Gameplay

#51

Post by pm90 » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 8:35 AM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #42

deepspace wrote: post #13

As someone who has worked in the Canadian tech scene for 25 years, and rode two startups all the way to exit (i.e. acquisition by US companies), in my opinion the problem has nothing to do with exit mindset, good angels, bad angels or SRED. It is all about talent retention. Up until early 2000, Canadian tech salaries at least somewhat kept pace with US salaries, albeit 20-30% lower. After the dot com crash, however,…

The hush hush survey is something all tech companies do in the US as well. They report their salary information to a third party company who then shares industry data back with all participants. I am not sure how this is not an illegal price signaling scheme. I heard this from a person who worked in compensation at a FAANG company.

This is true. It’s not illegal probably because why would it be? They’re “just taking surveys of aggregate salary data”.

Re: How the Canadian Tech Scene Encourages Finite Gameplay

#52

Post by triceratops » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 8:38 AM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #41

I try to be charitable when I critique an article, so Alex please don't take this comment as a personal attack. I appreciate your writing of this article and your efforts to improve Canada. There are some truths in your article and an interesting perspective on the cascading feedback loops, which I think has merit, but there are some factual errors here that I think should be addressed. > The problem with SR&ED credi…

> Most of our workers don't work as hard and they don't have to worry about healthcare costs.

I appreciate that you wrote such an otherwise thoughtful post. But as a founder, I think this may be a blind spot for you.

Most SV tech employees also don't have to worry about healthcare costs in any meaningful way. At every company I've worked at in the Bay Area, I've only done more than the standard 40 hours/week when I was chasing a big promotion. Or doing something I was especially excited about. And I've done OK in my career so far - I'm quite satisfied.

Whereas the salaries at most startup-y tech companies are laughable in Toronto or Vancouver compared to the housing costs (one Vancouver company seriously quoted me CAD 80k for a frontend role slinging React code 2 years ago).

The big companies in the Bay Area pay 3x the average Toronto startup. I promise you they aren't working 120 hour weeks, and I'm sure your employees aren't working 13 hour weeks.

Re: How the Canadian Tech Scene Encourages Finite Gameplay

#53

Post by pm90 » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 8:45 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #33

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about size, at least not directly. FAANG companies are big in large part because they radically changed the world for the better, and most people who identify as part of the "startup scene" are hoping they can be a part of something similar.

> because they radically changed the world for the better Did Facebook "radically changed the world for the better"? Did Twitter? Did Google, for that matter? Is the control it has amassed, and its imperial impact of business and ideas (and the web itself) a net positive to a good search engine and a OK email service (both of which have gotten worse over time)?

Facebook is the only social media company in “FAANG”. Amazon, Apple, Netflix and Google have, I would argue, materially changed our lives for the better. They created the smartphones that are now ubiquitous and that opened up a whole marketplace of app based tech. They literally created cloud computing which has allowed more companies to focus on product ideas and get off the ground quickly. E-commerce (disrupting retail), streaming (disrupting Hollywood). Not to mention all the OSS and platform improvements that have originated at Faangs.

They have grown powerful and entities with power will often abuse it, and I would argue that regulations would be a good step in this direction. But arguing they haven’t had a positive impact on society is absurd.

Re: How the Canadian Tech Scene Encourages Finite Gameplay

#54

Post by colordrops » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 8:48 AM UTC

usrusr wrote: post #48

DanHulton wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally just left a really enjoyable job with a Toronto company for a California company that pays 50% more. This is completely correct.

You consider "66% of California pay" low?

They probably under-negotiated.

Re: How the Canadian Tech Scene Encourages Finite Gameplay

#55

Post by pm90 » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 8:52 AM UTC

I have a contrarian take. The Canadian tech scene is limited not by the Captains of Canada’s industry (although it might be a factor, but not the major one) but by the simple fact that Canada’s economy and population are much smaller than the US and importantly, Canada doesn’t throw insane amounts of Cash into its Defense industry. They also cannot deficit spend forever like the US can because of the USD. I would wager these structural issues are likely to be more consequential than debating over compensation fixation.

Re: How the Canadian Tech Scene Encourages Finite Gameplay

#56

Post by __turbobrew__ » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 8:54 AM UTC

chongli wrote: post #36

It's a difference of cultures. Canadian culture traditionally focuses less on making a lot of noise, standing out from the crowd, etc. Canadians are almost infamous for politeness, especially compared to Americans. Now, couple this with the ease at which Canadian engineers can get jobs in the US and the picture emerges, bright and clear. Any Canadian with a lot of ambition may be alienated by the relaxed culture in C…

You didn’t go over the possibility that Canadians may prefer to live in Canada compared to the United States. Last time I checked there wasn’t a race war and a group of belligerents storming the capitol in Canada.

Re: How the Canadian Tech Scene Encourages Finite Gameplay

#57

Post by coldtea » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 8:59 AM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #53

coldtea wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because they radically changed the world for the better Did Facebook "radically changed the world for the better"? Did Twitter? Did Google, for that matter? Is the control it has amassed, and its imperial impact of business and ideas (and the web itself) a net positive to a good search engine and a OK email service (both of which have gotten worse over time)?

Facebook is the only social media company in “FAANG”. Amazon, Apple, Netflix and Google have, I would argue, materially changed our lives for the better. They created the smartphones that are now ubiquitous and that opened up a whole marketplace of app based tech. They literally created cloud computing which has allowed more companies to focus on product ideas and get off the ground quickly. E-commerce (disrupting re…

Notice though how none of the above looks into second order effects.

Nor is "disrupting retail" or "disrupting Hollywood" automatically good in themselves... (e.g. a question would be "disrupting towards the better?").

Re: How the Canadian Tech Scene Encourages Finite Gameplay

#58

Post by MartianSquirrel » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 9:04 AM UTC

MartianSquirrel wrote: post #35

Disclaimer: Clearly biased, I am from Montreal. > That’s part of why I think that if any city in Canada has the potential to actually develop a Bay Area grade startup scene (smaller, sure, but actually the real thing), it’s clearly Montreal I would have to agree with the conclusion of this article, Montreal has: (i) 5 universities very close to each other(i.e. 10 to 20 minutes walk from each other) + Great public tra…

Bonus: there are 56 craft breweries on the island alone

Re: How the Canadian Tech Scene Encourages Finite Gameplay

#59

Post by AzzieElbab » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 9:09 AM UTC

deepspace wrote: post #13

As someone who has worked in the Canadian tech scene for 25 years, and rode two startups all the way to exit (i.e. acquisition by US companies), in my opinion the problem has nothing to do with exit mindset, good angels, bad angels or SRED. It is all about talent retention. Up until early 2000, Canadian tech salaries at least somewhat kept pace with US salaries, albeit 20-30% lower. After the dot com crash, however,…

Doesn’t Canadian tax system make higher salaries kind of pointless? Same with bonuses

Re: How the Canadian Tech Scene Encourages Finite Gameplay

#60

Post by modo_mario » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 9:19 AM UTC

antoniuschan99 wrote: post #28

I’m 10 years into my career and been in Toronto the entire time. I often feel like I’m slowly wasting my talent here that would be better utilized somewhere else. Maybe Shenzen or the West coast. I work days at a job and nights and weekends on my business. The business is doing good, it’s slowly scaling, just a long slog. In the last 10 years I worked at around 15 different places as a contractor. I met a lot of deve…

>My last point is that there is a big problem with startups being acquired by US companies. Tim Hortons got bought out by BK, North got bought out by Google. When I first started, this notable design company behind Medium, Teehan+Lax got bought out by Facebook.

Basically this. US tech companies are sitting on such stacks of cash seeking for avenues to expand in line with the others that most Canadian or European companies that might make it big and join them just get bought out. The alternative is not selling out and making that money in the long term which doesn't seem likely when instead of buying in that big company just forces itself into the market with it's cash and clout to destroy your margins. Oh and then there's the success-stories that don't get bought out but just move to san francisco for the infrastructure or money and partnerships like gitlab, etc Without some kind of protectionism on this front it won't change either.