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Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

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Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#51
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call micro-kernels a " unix style operating system with a unix style design", quite the opposite. The only thing in common with UNIX from current Redox is the POSIX support.

A microkernel is a valid implementation for a unix like. The way that posix filesystem semantics are a kernel provided abstraction is very "unix style".

Except contrary to urban myths that isn't exclusive to UNIX and precedes it.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#52
post #46
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what concerns ARM and SPARC platforms, memory tagging is happening and being adopted by Apple/Google platforms, in what concerns Intel, it was yet again another from their screwups.

Interesting. Do Apple M1/Ax have memory tagging already?

Not 100% there, but pointer autentication is already a step into that direction.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/preparing...

Meanwhile Google is doing the homework for Android.

"[Arm DevSummit - Ecosystem Talk] Improving Your Android App to Prevent Security Vulnerabilities"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkoOD4hmiGE

And regardless of one thinks of Oracle, Solaris SPARC has had it for ages.

https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E37838_01/html/E61059/gqajs.html

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#53
post #37

The name alludes to the Ship of Theseus, a thought experiment where, over the course of many repairs, every piece of a ship is eventually replaced. Given that, I found it interesting that this is applied to a novel greenfield OS effort, instead of a project to rewrite an existing OS in Rust piece-by-piece.

It's such a silly “thought experiment”. The simple answer is that “identity” is pseudoscience and does not exist; it's a man-made delusion created by the human mind to simplify reality and deal with it more easily. “identity” does not even apply to truly atomic particles, because there is no way to say that they aren't “different” in a next instance of time. There are far too many “thought experiments” and “quæstions…

Why is it a silly thought experiment? It makes us aware of exactly what you are describing.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#54
post #37

The name alludes to the Ship of Theseus, a thought experiment where, over the course of many repairs, every piece of a ship is eventually replaced. Given that, I found it interesting that this is applied to a novel greenfield OS effort, instead of a project to rewrite an existing OS in Rust piece-by-piece.

It's such a silly “thought experiment”. The simple answer is that “identity” is pseudoscience and does not exist; it's a man-made delusion created by the human mind to simplify reality and deal with it more easily. “identity” does not even apply to truly atomic particles, because there is no way to say that they aren't “different” in a next instance of time. There are far too many “thought experiments” and “quæstions…

By that logic you would need to call like half of all useful phenomena that most people's lives consist of and depend on, as "man-made delusion". We still need to interact with our lives, and many of the abstractions help us do that.

BTW if you just replace the word "delusion" with "abstraction" you'll probably see how it makes a lot of sense. Every abstraction is a delusion by definition, is it not? Because the abstracted thing doesn't really exist in the same way as source observation?

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#55
post #37

The name alludes to the Ship of Theseus, a thought experiment where, over the course of many repairs, every piece of a ship is eventually replaced. Given that, I found it interesting that this is applied to a novel greenfield OS effort, instead of a project to rewrite an existing OS in Rust piece-by-piece.

It's such a silly “thought experiment”. The simple answer is that “identity” is pseudoscience and does not exist; it's a man-made delusion created by the human mind to simplify reality and deal with it more easily. “identity” does not even apply to truly atomic particles, because there is no way to say that they aren't “different” in a next instance of time. There are far too many “thought experiments” and “quæstions…

Considering philosohy "pseudoscience" is what's silly.

Without the human mind, there is no meaningful concept of "reality".

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#56
post #37

The name alludes to the Ship of Theseus, a thought experiment where, over the course of many repairs, every piece of a ship is eventually replaced. Given that, I found it interesting that this is applied to a novel greenfield OS effort, instead of a project to rewrite an existing OS in Rust piece-by-piece.

It's such a silly “thought experiment”. The simple answer is that “identity” is pseudoscience and does not exist; it's a man-made delusion created by the human mind to simplify reality and deal with it more easily. “identity” does not even apply to truly atomic particles, because there is no way to say that they aren't “different” in a next instance of time. There are far too many “thought experiments” and “quæstions…

It's funny that your comment is fading out due to downvotes, as if disappearing from the existence.

It reminded me of Douglas Adams' quote from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: "There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened."

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's such a silly “thought experiment”. The simple answer is that “identity” is pseudoscience and does not exist; it's a man-made delusion created by the human mind to simplify reality and deal with it more easily. “identity” does not even apply to truly atomic particles, because there is no way to say that they aren't “different” in a next instance of time. There are far too many “thought experiments” and “quæstions…

By that logic you would need to call like half of all useful phenomena that most people's lives consist of and depend on, as "man-made delusion". We still need to interact with our lives, and many of the abstractions help us do that. BTW if you just replace the word "delusion" with "abstraction" you'll probably see how it makes a lot of sense. Every abstraction is a delusion by definition, is it not? Because the abst…

Are they really useful or are they just easy to copy and to rember?

Staying power of memes in culture has little to do with their usefulness.

Whole lot of popular narratives distract us from the nature of reality rather than helps us interact with it.

I would gladly see introduction to particle physics that doesn't show a single sharp rigid sphere.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic you would need to call like half of all useful phenomena that most people's lives consist of and depend on, as "man-made delusion". We still need to interact with our lives, and many of the abstractions help us do that. BTW if you just replace the word "delusion" with "abstraction" you'll probably see how it makes a lot of sense. Every abstraction is a delusion by definition, is it not? Because the abst…

Are they really useful or are they just easy to copy and to rember? Staying power of memes in culture has little to do with their usefulness. Whole lot of popular narratives distract us from the nature of reality rather than helps us interact with it. I would gladly see introduction to particle physics that doesn't show a single sharp rigid sphere.

Being able to refer to my car, or ship, or other vessel, as an identified single object, regardless of what parts have been changed - yes, I would say it is very useful thing for living with it and operating it.

> easy to copy and to rember

That's a very important, useful and valueable property of an abstraction, yes. Though certainly not the only important property.

Or do you want one that takes you hours to understand and that you have to remind yourself of it and re-learn every week?

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's such a silly “thought experiment”. The simple answer is that “identity” is pseudoscience and does not exist; it's a man-made delusion created by the human mind to simplify reality and deal with it more easily. “identity” does not even apply to truly atomic particles, because there is no way to say that they aren't “different” in a next instance of time. There are far too many “thought experiments” and “quæstions…

By that logic you would need to call like half of all useful phenomena that most people's lives consist of and depend on, as "man-made delusion". We still need to interact with our lives, and many of the abstractions help us do that. BTW if you just replace the word "delusion" with "abstraction" you'll probably see how it makes a lot of sense. Every abstraction is a delusion by definition, is it not? Because the abst…

> By that logic you would need to call like half of all useful phenomena that most people's lives consist of and depend on, as "man-made delusion". We still need to interact with our lives, and many of the abstractions help us do that.

And they are, and they might help you, but trying to ask scientific or metaphysical quæstions about it, is an exercise in futility.

> BTW if you just replace the word "delusion" with "abstraction" you'll probably see how it makes a lot of sense. Every abstraction is a delusion by definition, is it not? Because the abstracted thing doesn't really exist in the same way as source observation?

The difference is of course that some abstractions have rigorous definitions rather than purely based on human intuition, and then attempting to reason about them rigorously, quickly leading to reductions to the absurd such as here.

The quæstion raised in The Ship of Theseus assumes that there even be a meaningful, rigorous distinction between “same identity” an “different identity” — I reject that and attempting to reason about this with actual logic and empiricism is ridiculous.

It is as foolish as trying to have a scientific investigation about who is beautiful and who isn't.

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