Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 112 posts

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#51

Post by muro »

Spiwux wrote: post #22
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #6

But don't Germany and France both have actual laws against offensive speech on the internet that allows the government itself to compel social media websites to delete people's content? Their feigned concern over Twitter excercising its 1st Amendment rights seems a bit hypocritical here.

Not only that, Merkel's party is a significant driver in laws and regulations that reduce user internet anonymity. Considering that multiple politicians voiced this opinion at surprisingly similar time this seems like some coordinated PR thing. They probably just realised that the same could happen to them and that they might have their communication channels cut off when they inevitably try to break up the big US te…

You can have free speech without anonymity.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#52

Post by osgovernment »

refurb wrote: post #39
user-the-name wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private tech companies. This is about who gets to make the decisions, not what the decisions are.

Right. That was her point. Free speech is at risk when it’s Zuckerberg making the call.

Does that mean if I call my boss names and he fires me, he is censoring my free speech? Now apply that to Facebook. Facebook isn't censoring free speech and the definition of free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want and not have any repercussions.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#53

Post by bsradcliffe »

You don't have guaranteed freedom of speech.

You only have your speech protected from government infringement.

Twitter is not the government, and you waived your rights in their terms of service.

Giving society complete freedom is like asking for a body to exist without an immune system--cancerous ideas and movements will exist unchecked and feast on more of society.

Stop. Saying. You. Need. More. Freedom.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#54

Post by yalogin »

I don’t get the rationale used there. A president is not forced to use Twitter or any other social media. If they choose to use it then they have to abide by the rules of the platform, and the platform should impose the rules as they see fit. Forcing the platform to change the rules because of a special person is a slippery slope.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#55

Post by benrbray »

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #38
trident5000 wrote: post #8

I'm looking past Trump. The tech cartel can not only decide which party wins elections, they can decide which candidates within the winning party keep their seats. And they are getting more and more desperate to shape politics as they run from anti-trust. For me its too much power.

A fair enough opinion, and a worthy discussion. But this particular issue of Trump’s Twitter suspension is clearly about not giving delusional lunatics more fodder for their actions, rather than silencing Trump. Edit: I’m not siding with or against Twitter here. Whether their decision was wise or not certainly needs to be discussed. I’m just pointing out that “silencing the lunatic in the White House” isn’t the only…

I think it's dangerous to start banning politicians from using a public (even if privately owned) platform, especially when it plays into their narrative of oppression. Let him incriminate himself further until he's no longer a public official, then ban his personal account.

I especially don't agree with their decision to hide all of his past posts. If they allowed it to stay up for so long, it should remain permanently as part of the political context of this time period.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#56

Post by syshum »

tormeh wrote: post #45
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #6

But don't Germany and France both have actual laws against offensive speech on the internet that allows the government itself to compel social media websites to delete people's content? Their feigned concern over Twitter excercising its 1st Amendment rights seems a bit hypocritical here.

>But don't Germany and France both have actual laws against offensive speech on the internet So does the US. Try "I'm going to kill the US president" (maybe with a bit more specifics) and see how long you remain free. The US may have a bit freer speech than is normal, but there's no absolute free speech

You will stay freer longer than you would expect, you will get a visit from Federal agents but that comment is unlikely to raise to the level of a True Threat thus would be protected under the 1st amendment,

You may get added to watch lists, and federal agents may take a closer look at your life which could result in other charges or problems but it would not be that comment itself that violated US law

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#57

Post by trident5000 »

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #38
trident5000 wrote: post #8

I'm looking past Trump. The tech cartel can not only decide which party wins elections, they can decide which candidates within the winning party keep their seats. And they are getting more and more desperate to shape politics as they run from anti-trust. For me its too much power.

A fair enough opinion, and a worthy discussion. But this particular issue of Trump’s Twitter suspension is clearly about not giving delusional lunatics more fodder for their actions, rather than silencing Trump. Edit: I’m not siding with or against Twitter here. Whether their decision was wise or not certainly needs to be discussed. I’m just pointing out that “silencing the lunatic in the White House” isn’t the only…

My issue here is that while I agree Trump is goofy and id like to see him go, the definitions of what is and is not dangerous ultimately is up to a handful of unelected corporate employees. Those definitions are and will more so align with corporate strategy and a bottom line. And while its not a freedom of speech issue in the strict legal sense, it is by a practical matter.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#58

Post by sebmellen »

davewritescode wrote: post #29
refurb wrote: post #14

Hilarious that Europe, who takes a much more measured approach to free speech has concerns with big tech’s censorship. When Europe starts to worry about free speech that says something as to how far America has fallen.

What's Twitter supposed to do? There's likely real legal liability here. Trump has said whatever he wanted on Twitter, true or not, for the better part of a decade. When that speech translated into violence that killed at least 6 including a police officer, what's a company supposed to do? Also, Free speech protections don't apply to private platforms. Only a government run equivalent of Twitter would be.

Wait — there's a very important question here — why should Twitter face prosecution if news networks that aired hours of uncut Trump speeches do not? Should every organization that has published or platformed possibly violence-inciting speech from Trump (without heavy editorialization) be on the hook as well? Where does it end?

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#59

Post by minipci1321 »

osgovernment wrote: post #44
user-the-name wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private tech companies. This is about who gets to make the decisions, not what the decisions are.

I'd be much more worried about governments telling me what I can/can't say, rather than private companies not letting me use their platforms to say it.

lawmakers != government

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#60

Post by muro »

It would be nice if the outcome of this shitstorm were the introduction and enforcement of right to not be removed at will from these services. They are pretty much monopolies now and what worked when they were small is causing too much damage to others as they are big.
Post reply on HN