Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

hongkongwatch.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 179 posts

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#51

Post by patagonia »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #18
patagonia wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this going down the path of "we wind up just like them". I see this going down the path of WW III. What we need is another cold war. Any hot war will be unimaginably costly and drawn out.

MAD basically assures no hot war, it will be infrastructural hacks, IP theft, economic warfare, etc. moving forward.

Hypersonic weapons changes that. Hypersonic weapons are very difficult to confuse with nuclear weapons. Combine that with cyber warfare and drone/robotic warfare... And it is now possible to have an all out conventional warfare style war again. MAD no longer applies here. MAD was relevant when "destruction" required nuclear weapons. It didn't really mean "you destroy me I destroy you." It meant, you launch nuclear weapons (which will destroy me) and I have enough left over to destroy you. That warfare no longer presents the likely scenario as would unfold between two superpowers.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#52

Post by hndudette2 »

echelon wrote: post #3

If we care at all about our future and the generations to come, we must oppose China at all costs. They extinguish dissent. Not just locally, but abroad. They censor our domestic companies that want a foothold in their market (Disney, Blizzard, the NBA, Apple). We need to stop taking their money, and we need to move manufacturing to Vietnam, India, Mexico, and Africa. Strategic manufacturing (medical and tech) needs…

[flagged]

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#53

Post by echelon »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #41
FpUser wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can not put a base in a single day. This will be a process which you can not hide from China. You think they'll just swallow it and will not attack Taiwan at the first hint of event? In my opinion it is not a _peaceful_ action but an act of a lunatic who does not give a shit about human lives.

Of course you can't hide it. And of course it's possible they may decide to attack Taiwan if it were attempted. It's also possible that not doing so _guarantees_ an attack by China. It's all a balance of probabilities. One could very well rationally decide the likelihood of China attacking Taiwan decreases by putting a base there. I'm not saying that conclusion is guaranteed correct, or that you should agree with it,…

Offer statehood first. If China attacks a US state, they've declared war.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#54

Post by inglor_cz »

Arubis wrote: post #8

This timing is unsurprising; it’s clear there’s nobody at the wheel in the U.S. for a couple of weeks, lowering the odds of reprisal during this window of opportunity. What would shift this? Does the E.U. have sufficient clout?

"Does the E.U. have sufficient clout?"

Germany / Merkel (because she is the one who determines German foreign policy de facto) will not do anything that is against German business interests. As of 2021, Germany is neither left, nor right, neither liberal, nor conservative - on the international scene, it is a purely business-oriented nation.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#55

Post by Grimm1 »

The US should be forming a closer relationship with India, to work with them strategically to increase their domestic investment and try to reach some type of parity, economically, with China as a ballast.

We, the US, simply don't have the literal bodies regardless of our economy.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#56

Post by thepasswordis »

How do people seriously not see the parallels here? The way that the CCP, and most Chinese people, view the protestors in Hong Kong, is exactly the same way that the US Government, as well as most of the US, view the protestors in DC on Weds.

HKers say they want democracy and fair elections. CCP and most Chinese think that's bullshit. MAGAs say they want democracy and fair elections. Most of the US Gov as well as most US citizens think that's bullshit.

CCP wants to ban "disharmonious activity" from social media. HKers think that's a front for suppression of dissent. US Gov wants to ban "hate speech" from social media. MAGA think that's just a front for suppression of dissent.

CCP runs pseudo-secret reeducation camps in Xianjian. US runs pseudo-secret detention camps at Guantanamo Bay.

Etc. etc. etc.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#57

Post by knolax »

arcticbull wrote: post #42
knolax wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A century old treaty signed at gunpoint can be dissolved at gunpoint.

That’s not how international obligations work. Most borders were defined at gunpoint but we generally don’t allow for arbitrary redefinition when the loser gets uppity, Crimea aside.

That's not how international relations work. Appealing to some arbitrary set of conventions (that you prove in your own comment don't get followed) and then complaining that the other side is "uppity" does nothing.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#58

Post by echelon »

patagonia wrote: post #36
echelon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What we need is another cold war. I agree, but we need to show teeth. We have to shut down their domestic growth engine, crater nationalistic confidence, and make them understand they have no path forward but to concede to international pressures. The Chinese people deserve freedom and liberty. The Uyghurs and Tibetan people deserve self-determination should they themselves choose it. Look what playing nice and fri…

There is zero chance we'll shut down their domestic growth. They're self sufficient. There is no international pressure that can be brought to bear that will be of consequence. The only thing I see being effective is providing technology to their citizens to fight their way out of it. Provide them ways to communicate and disrupt, providing resources and broadcasting their message and documenting their efforts to the…

> There is zero chance we'll shut down their domestic growth. They're self sufficient.

China imports food and energy. They don't produce enough to meet their own needs.

Their population is largely male, old, and they're not having children. As more reach retirement age, growth will be diverted to take care of the elderly.

Their domestic economy is a mystery. Investing in Chinese companies is a risk. They like to show positive numbers, but can they be trusted?

Shut off their imports and stop buying from them, and they'll have lots of trouble.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#60

Post by publicola1990 »

arcticbull wrote: post #42
knolax wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A century old treaty signed at gunpoint can be dissolved at gunpoint.

That’s not how international obligations work. Most borders were defined at gunpoint but we generally don’t allow for arbitrary redefinition when the loser gets uppity, Crimea aside.

For a long time American policy was also that these "unfair" treaties made by Colonial Powers should go. Roosevelt was very much of that opinion that these treaties should be abbrograted in the aftermath of World War II, and his views did lead to some differences of opinion with Churchill.

Infact all other concessions except HK and Macau were returned to Chinese about the end of the war.

Post reply on HN