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School or Prison

schoolprison.com

51–60 of 497 posts

Re: School or Prison

#51
post #3

What’s the point being made here? That if you take a picture of a building from a specific angle it’s difficult to tell the function of the building?

Here's a really good article to explain the consequences of schools being the holding pens which they are: http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html

Re: School or Prison

#52
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As referenced in the comment with the Foucault quote, the modern school and prison are both structures designed in a way that makes it easier for their authorities (wardens, guards, principals and teachers) to contain and control their captive populations (prisoners and students). In his book "Discipline and Punish", Foucault argues that in the establishment of the modern prison, the mission of imprisonment shifted f…

I doubt that is how schools functions and that they were trying to make obedient citizens that follows regular hours or whatever nonsense people conjure up. The reason schools operate that way is simple: sheer inertia combined with just being impervious to reform.

Really interesting analysis: "schools operate that way because that's the way they are."

Re: School or Prison

#53
post #27

I did quite well by measuring "overall area of ground level windows".

It was my criteria as well and the only one that failed me was https://www.holmesmiller.com/project/hmp-grampian Which looks really nice for a prison. I suspect it is an administrative building, or just the entrance. Not the place where inmates actually live.

It shows no windows at all, beyond the reception area.

Re: School or Prison

#54
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As referenced in the comment with the Foucault quote, the modern school and prison are both structures designed in a way that makes it easier for their authorities (wardens, guards, principals and teachers) to contain and control their captive populations (prisoners and students). In his book "Discipline and Punish", Foucault argues that in the establishment of the modern prison, the mission of imprisonment shifted f…

I doubt that is how schools functions and that they were trying to make obedient citizens that follows regular hours or whatever nonsense people conjure up. The reason schools operate that way is simple: sheer inertia combined with just being impervious to reform.

What makes the the nonsense you're conjuring up, with no argument or research, more valid than that of the renowned philosophers you are trivially dismissing? Doubt is good, but strong, unjustified claims are not.

Re: School or Prison

#56

My philosophy teacher said that both prisons and schools end up being a panopticon because you want the same in both places: maximize the feel of power of the authority, don't leave any place without surveillance,...

I have never seen a school with a literal panopticon (a tower from which everything can be seen, and which can not be seen into). So then if not a literal panopticon, a metaphorical panopticon? Doesn't mirror my school experience either. Feeling was that the teachers had no idea what was going on most of the time. But I didn't go to school in the US, maybe that's why?

Re: School or Prison

#57

Is it surprising that the cellular prison, with its regular chronologies, forced labour, its authorities of surveillance and registration, its experts in normality, who continue and multiply the functions of the judge, should have become the modern instrument of penality? Is it surprising that prisons resemble factories, schools, barracks, hospitals, which all resemble prisons? Michel Foucault

this is because tall, rectangular buildings maximize volume to surface area, whether a hospital school or prison. It is not a form of social control or domination. it is more efficient this way. A one-story hospital would be prohibitively expensive to build in an urban area, and it is not like healthcare is not already too expensive.

This is certainly a sound explanation – but is it a good one? If we optimize school buildings and prison buildings in a way that they end up being indistinguishable from one another, maybe we should reconsider the metrics we are optimizing for.

Re: School or Prison

#58
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As referenced in the comment with the Foucault quote, the modern school and prison are both structures designed in a way that makes it easier for their authorities (wardens, guards, principals and teachers) to contain and control their captive populations (prisoners and students). In his book "Discipline and Punish", Foucault argues that in the establishment of the modern prison, the mission of imprisonment shifted f…

I doubt that is how schools functions and that they were trying to make obedient citizens that follows regular hours or whatever nonsense people conjure up. The reason schools operate that way is simple: sheer inertia combined with just being impervious to reform.

[deleted]

Re: School or Prison

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is because tall, rectangular buildings maximize volume to surface area, whether a hospital school or prison. It is not a form of social control or domination. it is more efficient this way. A one-story hospital would be prohibitively expensive to build in an urban area, and it is not like healthcare is not already too expensive.

This is certainly a sound explanation – but is it a good one? If we optimize school buildings and prison buildings in a way that they end up being indistinguishable from one another, maybe we should reconsider the metrics we are optimizing for.

I'm not sure I get what's the problem with schools and prisons looking the same. Prisons should look like the rest of the world after all, they're supposed to be places where you learn to function in society.
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