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Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

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Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#51

Post by SEJeff »

everyone wrote: post #13
SEJeff wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can happily set the autopilot speed to above the speed limit. There are a few gotchas and it won’t always let you, but in general, it is fine. I normally set it to 10% higher than the posted speed limit as an example.

You intentionally wish to drive 10% higher than the speed limit.. So, you desire to be in car crash? Also one at faster speeds and therefore exponentially more deadly? Everyone has to use public roads, not just you. You are endangering all other diligent road users with your behavior, not just yourself.

Most of the US drives faster than the speed limit. It is unsafe to drive the speed limit if everyone is going 10-15mph over the posted limit. Assuming you know the context you clearly don’t makes you look like a jerk. Just because some places (like Australia) strictly enforce speed limits doesn’t mean everyone everywhere does.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#52

Post by camjohnson26 »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #33
orange_tee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So he and his passenger went to sleep fully knowing that Tesla's driving assist could fail at any moment? You mean, they were both suicidal? Much more plausible is that he is scared to implicate Tesla into this.

Tesla marks all these features as beta on the menu where you activate them, and pops up a long warning text explicitly stating the limitations. I don’t think Tesla could do much more than they already do.

They’ve oversold the tech and the capabilities in multiple public statements. Musk said they would have a fully autonomous cross country trip by 2017, and said there would be 500,000 robo-taxis on the road by the end of this year. These claims make the general public assume the tech is almost ready and that disclaimers are just a legal CYA. Why else would people be trusting their life to something that could fail at any moment.

The only thing that makes me question is that only around 5 people have been killed by a Tesla on autopilot or FSD, which frankly is shocking to me given the multiple videos of abuse of these systems floating around the internet.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#53

Post by gambiting »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #37
gambiting wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Presuming that the car wouldn't hit any other car on the road" - it absolutely would though. The tech is good enough to avoid hitting another car that slows down in front of you, but if someone was broken down(and fully stopped) in your lane, the car will hit them at full speed. It might start breaking just before impact, but not fast enough to slow you down from 150km/h. No self driving or adaptive cruise tech can…

My Tesla has regularly come to a full stop from freeway speeds in response to traffic ahead. This may not be 100% reliable, but it’s not true that “the system is trained to ignore stationary objects”. It also beeps when it thinks I’m going to hit a stopped car and other things that demonstrate that this claim is false.

The question was specifically about this situation as described in the article - the car moving at 150km/h. No, your Tesla wouldn't stop in time for a fully stopped car in that situation.

It does slow down for traffic, but I think many people don't realize something - it works with moving traffic, because then it can definitely recognize that you are approaching a car(or at least something that moves in the same direction you do), so it knows it has to slow down for it.

>>It also beeps when it thinks I’m going to hit a stopped car and other things that demonstrate that this claim is false.

Read up on it, I'm sure the upper limit for this function is when the delta speed is >> but it’s not true that “the system is trained to ignore stationary objects”

These are not my words, that's exactly what Tesla said after the "trailer across a highway" accident, saying that of course they have to ignore stopped objects otherwise the car would emergency brake for overhead signs since they reflect radar the same way a stationary car does - at large enough distance there is no difference.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#54

Post by hluska »

orange_tee wrote: post #30
phaemon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So people keep claiming, but I've yet to see a single example of an actual Tesla owner who was confused about this. The person in this story wasn't confused and didn't even attempt a defense that Tesla had mislead them.

So he and his passenger went to sleep fully knowing that Tesla's driving assist could fail at any moment? You mean, they were both suicidal? Much more plausible is that he is scared to implicate Tesla into this.

If you feel like having some ‘fun’ (in a Dwarf Fortress sense) read about Leran Cai’s driving record and some of the arguments they have previously used in court. I’m nowhere near qualified to know what’s up with this dude but holy crap, someone make popcorn...:)

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#55

Post by camjohnson26 »

tehlike wrote: post #5
webmobdev wrote: post #2

> “They are not self-driving systems,” said Supt. Gary Graham of Alberta RCMP Traffic Services. > “These technologies assist drivers, but do not replace them,” said the statement from the federal institution responsible for transportation policies and programs ... > Tesla’s website states, “All new Tesla cars come standard with advanced hardware capable of providing Autopilot features today, and full self-driving cap…

You think it's regulation issue. I say it's because it's overtrust for an almost working system. If something gets good enough you will rely on it more and more. It will work, until it doesn't.

And the systems fail in ways that a human wouldn’t which makes it more dangerous. Teslas often “shadow brake” when driving under overpasses or overhead signs because the radar system gets confused.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#56

Post by AnthonyMouse »

orange_tee wrote: post #30
phaemon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So people keep claiming, but I've yet to see a single example of an actual Tesla owner who was confused about this. The person in this story wasn't confused and didn't even attempt a defense that Tesla had mislead them.

So he and his passenger went to sleep fully knowing that Tesla's driving assist could fail at any moment? You mean, they were both suicidal? Much more plausible is that he is scared to implicate Tesla into this.

You're ignoring the range of risk between safe and suicidal. Someone who drives down the highway at 100 MPH may be reckless but not suicidal. It's the same sort of thing. A stupid risk but far from a certainty of death.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#57

Post by camjohnson26 »

anonu wrote: post #23
gambiting wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Presuming that the car wouldn't hit any other car on the road" - it absolutely would though. The tech is good enough to avoid hitting another car that slows down in front of you, but if someone was broken down(and fully stopped) in your lane, the car will hit them at full speed. It might start breaking just before impact, but not fast enough to slow you down from 150km/h. No self driving or adaptive cruise tech can…

This [1] was the famous 2016 crash where a Tesla broad-sided a basically stationary semi-truck. Are you suggesting Tesla hasn't solved this type of problem yet? [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-crash/tesla-driver-...

There have been multiple reports of Teslas on autopilot hitting stationary roadside emergency vehicles.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#58

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #33
orange_tee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So he and his passenger went to sleep fully knowing that Tesla's driving assist could fail at any moment? You mean, they were both suicidal? Much more plausible is that he is scared to implicate Tesla into this.

Tesla marks all these features as beta on the menu where you activate them, and pops up a long warning text explicitly stating the limitations. I don’t think Tesla could do much more than they already do.

Disengage all driver assist tech when the seats are reclined beyond a certain point.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#59

Post by gambiting »

emteycz wrote: post #38
iso1210 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full Self Driving Capability suggests that the car has Full Capability to drive it self . That it does so as safely and legally as a human driver is implied by the word "full"

No, you should read that website, and perhaps try to buy a Tesla and see the materials. It says clearly that it's the hardware and that the software is not there yet.

Maybe you should read it again, because that's clearly not what it says. It lists several features which are available right now under the "full self-driving" moniker, and two which will arrive in the future. As it is right now, the system has more functions available than it is planned to have.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#60

Post by thatguy0900 »

everyone wrote: post #13
SEJeff wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can happily set the autopilot speed to above the speed limit. There are a few gotchas and it won’t always let you, but in general, it is fine. I normally set it to 10% higher than the posted speed limit as an example.

You intentionally wish to drive 10% higher than the speed limit.. So, you desire to be in car crash? Also one at faster speeds and therefore exponentially more deadly? Everyone has to use public roads, not just you. You are endangering all other diligent road users with your behavior, not just yourself.

Curious where you live that people don't speed. Here in Ohio you're expected to go 5 over at all times, people will tailgate and honk if you don't. 10% is lower than that at all but highway speeds
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