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UX Issues with Notion

telegra.ph

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Re: UX Issues with Notion

#51

Post by systemvoltage »

switz wrote: post #37
jitl wrote: post #22

(Disclaimer: I work on Notion) To me, the most interesting feedback here is that seamless-editable-by-default is a negative for this user, and as a work-around, this organization locks/unlocks every page. This is surprising to me because I find content locks and editing friction very annoying. For example I used Quip for many years, which locks any block currently being edited by someone else, which can be quite frus…

> For example I used Quip for many years, which locks any block currently being edited by someone else, which can be quite frustrating when someone happens to have an idling cursor in a random position. You understand what the OP is complaining about is not the same as the scenario you presented, right? I'm not even sure why you brought it up; is it to imply that _any_ 'friction' is bad? Is having to enter 'insert mo…

This is the typical "clealiness/minimalism/frictionless above everything else" paradigm in design circles that needs to die a horrible death. It's like we don't think anymore and instead blindly follow like a bunch of mind washed design-zombies that have been instructed by the god of minimalism to make everything look/feel clean.

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#52

Post by amluto »

jitl wrote: post #22

(Disclaimer: I work on Notion) To me, the most interesting feedback here is that seamless-editable-by-default is a negative for this user, and as a work-around, this organization locks/unlocks every page. This is surprising to me because I find content locks and editing friction very annoying. For example I used Quip for many years, which locks any block currently being edited by someone else, which can be quite frus…

> Likewise, wouldn’t you be baffled if you needed to click a “Start Editing” button in Word or Google Docs?

I find the Google Docs feature to share a document and allow suggestions only to be very useful. It lets me, as the author, keep track of what’s going on.

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#53

Post by wikibob »

jitl wrote: post #22

(Disclaimer: I work on Notion) To me, the most interesting feedback here is that seamless-editable-by-default is a negative for this user, and as a work-around, this organization locks/unlocks every page. This is surprising to me because I find content locks and editing friction very annoying. For example I used Quip for many years, which locks any block currently being edited by someone else, which can be quite frus…

Hopefully you have detailed page click analytics available to you?

Can you run a report on how often folks lock-unlock-relook pages?

This should be a good proxy for how many people are hacking in a workflow to allow for explicitly entering edit mode.

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#54

Post by lvice »

wim wrote: post #41
savrajsingh wrote: post #4

What's the best easy-to-get-started internal company wiki tool? Notion seemed useful at a startup I consulted for, but I too experienced some of the quirks the author mentions.

We built Papyrs for this ( https://papyrs.com ). Would be curious to hear your thoughts on this!

I had a go with a trial account. I like the UI/UX and the site is really fast. Impressive project, and it looks a billion times better than most Sharepoint-based intranets. Good luck!

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#55

Post by systemvoltage »

gazelleeatslion wrote: post #23
skrebbel wrote: post #10

I don't mind any of these issues to be honest, but I do mind how hopelessly slow it is. Is it also super sluggish for all you SF Bay area people? I can't tell if it's just network latency on a heavy protocol, or just slow slow.

On a new MBP M1 w16GB RAM it is really snappy. For a mere thousands of dollars you can join the fun. I imagine by M2 though this golden year will be far gone as everyone increases even more how much resources their apps eat.

PMs have gotten addicted to the sugar rush of features and developers to fried salty frameworks, creating a culture of obesity in software engineering. This needs to stop. Every prod test should go through a 10 year old system and perform satisfactorily.

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#56

Post by deckard1 »

Jonovono wrote: post #2

I love Notion, but also agree with all of this. Unfortunately there are no alternatives. (Waiting for this to be released, https://nvultra.com/ )

No alternative... to a note taking app? Am I missing something or is everyone crazy here?

I use Joplin (with Syncthing) which fits the bill. But I could literally use vim and a folder on my drive. I'm baffled by the productivity "maximizers" on HN. Is this never-ending search for the right tool just an elaborate excuse for procrastination?

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#57

Post by preommr »

skrebbel wrote: post #10

I don't mind any of these issues to be honest, but I do mind how hopelessly slow it is. Is it also super sluggish for all you SF Bay area people? I can't tell if it's just network latency on a heavy protocol, or just slow slow.

Is it slow for all pages or just ones with lots of content?

I've tested notion on some old laptops and it did ok. But I only tested it on some empty documents, so maybe that's why it wasn't too slow.

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#58

Post by chrisfosterelli »

jitl wrote: post #28
turtles_ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, the slowness is especially painful on mobile, which is the exact opposite of what you need from a note taking tool. I use other tools on mobile and copy to notion later which is exactly as convenient as it sounds. I do agree with the thrust of the article too, although I don't find any one UX issue (beyond slowness) a deal-breaker, but together they're collectively a pretty frustrating experience.

(I work at Notion) The mobile situation was much worse a year ago. We made big start time improvements by removing React Native and rebuilding our caching layer, but we still have a long way to go to beat Apple Notes. Using the Notion widget on iOS can really help with quick access for grocery lists. On Android devices the situation is still not usable.

In fairness, the work on the mobile front has shown a lot and I appreciate that! The android app used to take so long to load (and half the time it would just sit in a permanent loading state) that I flat out didn't use it. Lately it's improved a lot and is 'good enough' for my use case. The phone, at it's core, isn't really the tool I want to use for any long-form writing but it's totally sufficient for referring to documents now.

My biggest "speed frustration" right now is opening a new window in the Desktop app. Searching + navigating to a page within an existing window has gotten to be super speedy, but searching and cmd+enter to open in a new window still has quite some lag to it.

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#59

Post by chrisfosterelli »

deckard1 wrote: post #56
Jonovono wrote: post #2

I love Notion, but also agree with all of this. Unfortunately there are no alternatives. (Waiting for this to be released, https://nvultra.com/ )

No alternative... to a note taking app? Am I missing something or is everyone crazy here? I use Joplin (with Syncthing) which fits the bill. But I could literally use vim and a folder on my drive. I'm baffled by the productivity "maximizers" on HN. Is this never-ending search for the right tool just an elaborate excuse for procrastination?

IMO notion is not a short-form note taking app, and I think it's not ever going to the right app for that use case (though I know lots use it that way anyway).

I personally use Keep for most "notes" and notion for "documents". Some of the documents are notes but they're long-form research / project documents.

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