After TON failed [0] I don't see many other avenues for breaking even with 500 million monthly active users. [1]
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23156224 [1] https://t.me/durov/142
Telegram's getting ads
51–60 of 97 posts
Re: Telegram's getting ads
#52While Im not a fan of telegrams encryption, the title is a bit misleading. It makes it seem as if ALL of telegram is getting ads. if you go to the founders post https://t.me/durov/142 It clearly says ads will be for the 1:many public community channels and not the private 1:1 and group chats. Other ways of funding will be premium services for businesses and premium stickers. Sounds reasonable to me
Ads are never, ever reasonable. Never let other companies brain hack your users. It's unethical and an awful UX. No one is ever pleased to see an ad. It's not like we can't do instant messaging without ads. I have used IRC every day for the past 15 years. Not every project needs a business model to work and not every approach is justified because the business needs it.
> No one is ever pleased to see an ad.
People watching the US Professional Football Championships primarily to see the ads and watching movie trailers voluntarily (which are ads) seem to disprove your suggestion.
Messaging has costs, especially if it includes proxying media, or verifying control of phone numbers. If the costs aren't too big, it's find not to have a business model, but if the costs are large, a business model enables longevity.
Re: Telegram's getting ads
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
They (at least it's me) are possibly meaning the excellent multi-device use. I can easilly use Telegram on like 10 different devices, all chats are in sync.
This also means that it's much easier to spy on someone on Telegram: just create a fake device with telegram, then login the user into it using a phone with fake identity. Easy-peasy for a (Russian) government.
I am not sure what do you mean by spying. How does "create a fake device with telegram" work?
It seems hard to add a rogue device to an existing user's account without them knowing. The 5-digit login code is sent by SMS only when there is no other devices logged into Telegram in the account. In all other cases the user will be notified by seeing the confirmation code message on their Telegram app.
One can add a password as an authentication factor for their Telegram account also. Just in case the login code is intercepted.
Re: Telegram's getting ads
#54While Im not a fan of telegrams encryption, the title is a bit misleading. It makes it seem as if ALL of telegram is getting ads. if you go to the founders post https://t.me/durov/142 It clearly says ads will be for the 1:many public community channels and not the private 1:1 and group chats. Other ways of funding will be premium services for businesses and premium stickers. Sounds reasonable to me
Ads are never, ever reasonable. Never let other companies brain hack your users. It's unethical and an awful UX. No one is ever pleased to see an ad. It's not like we can't do instant messaging without ads. I have used IRC every day for the past 15 years. Not every project needs a business model to work and not every approach is justified because the business needs it.
I’m pleased to see ads that show me well designed products that solve problems I’ve been experiencing, especially if I don’t know I’ve been experiencing them.
For instance, Instagram’s targeting has realized that I like outdoorsy products, and even though I don’t buy the products, sometimes they inspire me to find a way to recreate the item myself.
In my opinion your POV is very dismissive of all the good work product design foundries the world over have been doing.
Re: Telegram's getting ads
#55From the founder's statement about making telegram sustainable:
> We are not going to sell the company like the founders of Whatsapp. The world needs Telegram to stay independent as a place where users are respected and high-quality service is ensured.
They're on the wrong track. Ads do not make a company independent. They make them dependent on those advertisers. If you're still using Telegram, it's long past time to move on to Signal.
Re: Telegram's getting ads
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Disagree. I like musical instruments. I don’t mind ads for guitar companies. I like embedded systems. I love seeing ads for new esp32 variants or low cost e-ink screens. Also I never object to women’s swimsuit ads. Just sayin’.
Still, ads will distract you in moments that you don't want to be distracted. If you like guitars, you can visit a good, large online guitar store, say once a week, and you will always be up to date. Same for swimsuits.
Thanks for telling me how my attention span works. Your insights are lacking but at least you make up for it by being condescending.
Re: Telegram's getting ads
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ads are never, ever reasonable. Never let other companies brain hack your users. It's unethical and an awful UX. No one is ever pleased to see an ad. It's not like we can't do instant messaging without ads. I have used IRC every day for the past 15 years. Not every project needs a business model to work and not every approach is justified because the business needs it.
> No one is ever pleased to see an ad. People watching the US Professional Football Championships primarily to see the ads and watching movie trailers voluntarily (which are ads) seem to disprove your suggestion. Messaging has costs, especially if it includes proxying media, or verifying control of phone numbers. If the costs aren't too big, it's find not to have a business model, but if the costs are large, a busine…
Watching film trailers is like watching possibly sponsored product 'reviews' or 'unboxings'. Sure, it's an advertisement for the product, but it's a deliberate choice to see its sales pitch, to see if you're interested.
That's different to me than unsolicited advertising.
Re: Telegram's getting ads
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you dislike about telegrams encryption? The only private messaging app Im really familiar with signal
The reason primarily is that they have rolled their own crypto, which based on a lot of reading and comments from other experts suggests is the wrong thing to do. To this end I havent seen a good explanation from Telegram as to why they have taken this route given there are so many proven & battle tested methods and algorithms. "We havent been hacked yet" doesnt seem good enough for me. 1:1 messages aren't e2e by def…
> The reason primarily is that they have rolled their own crypto, which based on a lot of reading and comments from other experts suggests is the wrong thing to do
Someone has to roll crypto.
Did Signal roll their own?
Re: Telegram's getting ads
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
I like Matrix, but when it comes to ease of use and onboarding Signal is easier for the general audience.
Is this a counter-argument, or plain pontification? OP clearly states that there is a fundamental issue with any centralized solution (i.e, the moment that it becomes too big, it will succumb to the interests of its owners) and you respond by saying "well, Signal is easier for the general audience"? It might be easier, so what ? Apple's products are supposedly more privacy-oriented than the Facebook's/Google's. So wh…
>It might be easier, so what?
If it is not easier/equal they won’t give it a go. Just that.
>The idea is that we should be rooting/encouraging others to put decentralization and freedom as a top-priority choice, not to keep excusing ourselves into adopting solutions that are bound to become another dominant walled garden.
Words of a freedom and privacy specialist. General folks are not specializing in it, more than a half (if only) cannot even connect it with their benefit. You say that like some economist could say “use less gas to keep prices down and nature alive”. But it doesn’t work, because “screw that nonsense, I have to drive my kids and groceries home”. If you’re in a quarantined country right now, just look around and see how many efforts the inconvenience requires to be sustained. This is the amount of force you have to apply, when doing it your “so what” way. Make IM app easy, friendly and full of features and cat pics and only then care for high matters. Literally all Real Security First apps are barely usable by a regular person in terms of everything.
Re: Telegram's getting ads
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ads are never, ever reasonable. Never let other companies brain hack your users. It's unethical and an awful UX. No one is ever pleased to see an ad. It's not like we can't do instant messaging without ads. I have used IRC every day for the past 15 years. Not every project needs a business model to work and not every approach is justified because the business needs it.
I’m pleased to see ads that show me well designed products that solve problems I’ve been experiencing, especially if I don’t know I’ve been experiencing them. For instance, Instagram’s targeting has realized that I like outdoorsy products, and even though I don’t buy the products, sometimes they inspire me to find a way to recreate the item myself. In my opinion your POV is very dismissive of all the good work produc…
You could just look up "outdoorsy" products. Why should everyone else have to suffer through ads and give up privacy just because a handful of people like them?
The whole advertising industry is now predicated on gaming people's attention, wants, and financial vulnerabilities. I also don't see how not wanting to see ads is dismissive of product design foundries. Just because you've designed a good product does not mean you're entitled to my attention or my time.