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Who Americans spend their time with, by age

ourworldindata.org

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Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#51

Post by yodsanklai »

burlesona wrote: post #36

The thing that seems crazy to me is how much time alone increases with age. There are many many reasons for it, but one thing I think is especially sad is how much this is a consequence of our built environment. If you live in a village with multiple generations of a family around, it’s much easier for grandparents to be involved day too day in helping with little things in the village, especially keeping an eye on t…

I remember a trip to Hong Kong. I was very surprised to see a lot of old folks hanging out together, in the park, or traditional restaurants. Actually, even in NYC, there were always a lot of elderlies spending time in the Deli near my home.

Maybe the secret is to retire in a place where one can maintain a good social life at an advanced age.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#52

Post by caeril »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #11

I don't even want kids. I don't know why the 'time spent with one's children' line hurts so much, but it does. It sharply rises, before plummeting at age 40. That's got to be a jarring transition. No wonder so many folks have trouble with the 'empty nest' and mid-life crisis.

40 is early for the average empty-nest boundary. That comes later. Rather, the decline at 40 marks marked independence of young children transitioning into pre-adolescence and then adolescence. You see your children much less 1. when they enter school, 2. when they start forming their own extra-familial friendships, and 3. when they enter adolescence and believe their parents don't know anything.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#53

Post by yodsanklai »

bogdan314 wrote: post #48
burlesona wrote: post #36

The thing that seems crazy to me is how much time alone increases with age. There are many many reasons for it, but one thing I think is especially sad is how much this is a consequence of our built environment. If you live in a village with multiple generations of a family around, it’s much easier for grandparents to be involved day too day in helping with little things in the village, especially keeping an eye on t…

happy news. The study does mention at the end that spending time alone dose not mean the individual feels lonely. Then reference this[1] article for more details. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/lonely-not-alone

> The study does mention at the end that spending time alone dose not mean the individual feels lonely

I'm a bit doubtful about this study. It's only anecdotal evidence, but I heard many old persons complaining heavily about loneliness.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#54

Post by danenania »

_qulr wrote: post #31
dcolkitt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Western nuclear family is a very unnatural social arrangement. Anthropologists have found that in most hunter-gatherers, the average infant is held at one point or another by 30+ people in a typical day. The nuclear family has the twin downsides of putting tons of stress on parents of young kids, who shoulder the entire childcare burden, and deprives a lot of grandparents, aunts, cousins, and others of meaningful…

I'm not defending the nuclear family, but I don't think our primitive past says anything about what's "optimal". For example, human life expectancy is much longer now. I'd much rather be a modern person with modern technology and medicine than a hunter-gatherer. Evolution != good. It's just history, and history is often ugly.

I don't think it's a question of good or bad, but of pragmatism in not fighting against the way that our bodies and minds were designed. Software is limited by the constraints of the hardware it runs on--engineers who try to ignore this will write slow and buggy software. Similarly, if we design lifestyles and societies that ignore, clash with, or subvert our biological and bio-psychological imperatives, we are likely to produce widespread physical and mental suffering.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#55

Post by Dirlewanger »

silveroriole wrote: post #30
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #11

I don't even want kids. I don't know why the 'time spent with one's children' line hurts so much, but it does. It sharply rises, before plummeting at age 40. That's got to be a jarring transition. No wonder so many folks have trouble with the 'empty nest' and mid-life crisis.

Makes me feel better in a way. By age 60 it won’t matter much whether I had kids or not. Time spent with them per day equals, like, one TV episode. So I’m happy to see that my partner and my self will continue to be more important by that metric.

What a truly bizarre sentiment. Just because the kids move out means they're completely out of your life?

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#56

Post by _qulr »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #42
_qulr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not defending the nuclear family, but I don't think our primitive past says anything about what's "optimal". For example, human life expectancy is much longer now. I'd much rather be a modern person with modern technology and medicine than a hunter-gatherer. Evolution != good. It's just history, and history is often ugly.

I agree with your general point, but much of the growth in life expectancy is driven by the massive drops in infant mortality. In general, modern advances have maybe added 10+ years to an average adult lifespan. The quality of the added lifespan is harder to assess though.

> The quality of the added lifespan is harder to assess though.

Is it? In a sense, the choice is still available to adopt the hunter-gatherer lifestyle, if you wanted. I don't know many who would want to do that.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#57

Post by alextheparrot »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #38
baron_harkonnen wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat ironically, I think the important thing here is to learn to be more comfortable spending time alone. The pandemic has surprised me with both how much people are unable to just be alone for awhile, and related to this, how much they have a difficult time being with partners and family without larger social distractions. Being able to be alone, at least in my experience, helps you to be with other people in a…

I don't know if this is the sort of thing most people can use mental jiu jitsu to dodge out of. Social connection is a drive most might not be able to satisfy without actual social connection.

> This allows them to be more supportive and close when they need socialization because they aren't exhausted.

This part picks out an important detail, which is that if you’re capable of being alone social connection isn’t always load-bearing for your happiness and fulfillment. I don’t think this conflicts with the drive you mentioned, just that being okay without allows you to be more picky of how you are with.

It is similar to the difference between cooking whatever when you’re starving and finding richness and depth in being able to develop your craft for higher-order fulfillment. This premise, of course, relies on there being the availability of or willingness to build a larder containing the necessary materials.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#58

Post by joshxyz »

bogdan314 wrote: post #48
burlesona wrote: post #36

The thing that seems crazy to me is how much time alone increases with age. There are many many reasons for it, but one thing I think is especially sad is how much this is a consequence of our built environment. If you live in a village with multiple generations of a family around, it’s much easier for grandparents to be involved day too day in helping with little things in the village, especially keeping an eye on t…

happy news. The study does mention at the end that spending time alone dose not mean the individual feels lonely. Then reference this[1] article for more details. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/lonely-not-alone

Alone not lonely, lol. I think one part of it is of course partners dying but on top of that is giving less of a fuck as we grow old then really cherishing our time with the things that interests us intead of putting up with shitty people and shitty things in life

Also, the spending time with children is sadly low, imagine growing up with no grandkids to see man that must suck

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#59

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

_qulr wrote: post #31
dcolkitt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Western nuclear family is a very unnatural social arrangement. Anthropologists have found that in most hunter-gatherers, the average infant is held at one point or another by 30+ people in a typical day. The nuclear family has the twin downsides of putting tons of stress on parents of young kids, who shoulder the entire childcare burden, and deprives a lot of grandparents, aunts, cousins, and others of meaningful…

I'm not defending the nuclear family, but I don't think our primitive past says anything about what's "optimal". For example, human life expectancy is much longer now. I'd much rather be a modern person with modern technology and medicine than a hunter-gatherer. Evolution != good. It's just history, and history is often ugly.

Instead of idealizing noble savages, we might look to present-day cultures where large extended households are normal.

We would see that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Sometimes you get a great network of cousins who hook you up with business opportunities.

Sometimes you end up enslaved by your mother in law.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#60

Post by HenryBemis »

burlesona wrote: post #36

The thing that seems crazy to me is how much time alone increases with age. There are many many reasons for it, but one thing I think is especially sad is how much this is a consequence of our built environment. If you live in a village with multiple generations of a family around, it’s much easier for grandparents to be involved day too day in helping with little things in the village, especially keeping an eye on t…

> seems crazy to me is how much time alone increases with age

Many (to a degree or another) get tired of other people. Divorces, break-ups, tired of fights for money/inheritance, tired of people acting stupid, tired of fighting about politics, favourite teams, and many many many more.

I think people are getting tired of not getting 'what they want' from life, a partner, their kids, society, 'the system', so they self-isolate, do the things they enjoy (nothing, fishing, watching the birds, watching tv, etc.) without having anyone telling them to get their feet of the couch, don't eat cookies in bed, and other similar annoyances.

Also, depression, poverty, lifestyle, nostalgia. I was reading* that men tend to go back to their hometown and grow old/die there, women want to stay where they are or move forward. I assume that (for the 50+) this maybe has to do with the inequality and how women suffered/were treated badly when they were growing up in place A, 50 years ago vs living on place B, with today's change social mechanics.

I can think of a dozen more reasons.. I am not a psychologist, I just started observing how the 50+ like to live, as one day we will all get there :)

*Addition: I tried to remember more about that book and a couple of interviews but for the life of me I cannot remember the guy's name or face.. just his voice. He went on to explain the reason for that; in some countries/societies, when a couple marries, it is accustomed to live to the MAN's hometown, and in some other countries/societies they go to live to the WOMAN's hometown. So there could be the chance that they are not 'very' happy, they spend a life oppressed, and towards the end of their lives (and especially if the couple drifts apart -post empty nest, or one passes away) they want to go back to the place they grew up, which was not tarnished by 'hurtful memories' and they only have fond memories. Somewhere where they 'always belonged' either if they have not been there for 20-40 years. They will return and find their old friends.

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