‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#51

Post by slg » Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

RestlessMind wrote: post #33

From Coinbase's preemptive rebuttal[1]: "we hired an external consultant in August of this year who specializes in data science and diversity and inclusion to cull through all of our historic data related to diversity ... and conduct a high volume of interviews with employees representing all background, functions, and tenures to understand the employee experience. The independent investigation concluded that there w…

>What else can they do if they are really innocent?

Innocent of what exactly? At a certain point whether the leadership of Coinbase is racist or not doesn't matter. What matters is their actions. The article says "roughly three-quarters of the Black employees" left the company over a 6 month span due to feelings of being discriminated against. That isn't an accusation. It is a fact. It also isn't something that will just happen accidentally. That alone is a problem that demands urgent attention regardless of what is in the hearts of Coinbase's leadership team.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#52

Post by acdha » Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

RestlessMind wrote: post #33

From Coinbase's preemptive rebuttal[1]: "we hired an external consultant in August of this year who specializes in data science and diversity and inclusion to cull through all of our historic data related to diversity ... and conduct a high volume of interviews with employees representing all background, functions, and tenures to understand the employee experience. The independent investigation concluded that there w…

They could respond to the specific points raised in the article. An “independent” investigation setup, run, and reviewed only by the alleged perpetrator isn’t exactly definitive - especially if you see the points in the article where they acknowledge the complaints are valid (note the non-denial about the only white person in the compliance group getting an offer which wasn’t extended to anyone else) and think about how a “cull through our historical data” might not yield the full story if, as described, not everyone had formal reports included in that data because they were not informed or discouraged from doing so. “Unsubstantiated” only means they couldn’t prove it, not that it didn’t happen or even that all of the possible evidence was fully disclosed.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#53

Post by xoxoy » Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

this seems like it’s also a struggle between different teams at the same company. Customer Service teams are very often looked down upon as “less than” other teams like engineering, and this article states that a disproportionate number of the black employees were on that team.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#54

Post by oh_sigh » Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 6:38 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #51

RestlessMind wrote: post #33

From Coinbase's preemptive rebuttal[1]: "we hired an external consultant in August of this year who specializes in data science and diversity and inclusion to cull through all of our historic data related to diversity ... and conduct a high volume of interviews with employees representing all background, functions, and tenures to understand the employee experience. The independent investigation concluded that there w…

>What else can they do if they are really innocent? Innocent of what exactly? At a certain point whether the leadership of Coinbase is racist or not doesn't matter. What matters is their actions. The article says "roughly three-quarters of the Black employees" left the company over a 6 month span due to feelings of being discriminated against. That isn't an accusation. It is a fact. It also isn't something that will…

It's a fact, but it means nothing without context.

I punched a man in the face yesterday. To determine if I'm a violent person it's important to know whether I punched a man who was pushing his child on a swing set, or whether I punched a man who was crawling through a window in my home.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#55

Post by cbthrow91 » Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 6:40 PM UTC

chandra381 wrote: post #6

> One Black employee said her manager suggested in front of colleagues that she was dealing drugs and carrying a gun, trading on racist stereotypes. Another said a co-worker at a recruiting meeting broadly described Black employees as less capable. Still another said managers spoke down to her and her Black colleagues, adding that they were passed over for promotions in favor of less experienced white employees. The…

I find this hard to imagine without someone getting reprimanded. Not disbelieving the person's quote, but not accepting it as fact either. Seems like it would be easy to get corroborating witnesses for a situation that inappropriate.

The only group I've seen it be permissible to make stereotyped observations about in the last decade in an SF tech office is european/indian/chinese workers. FWIW I don't think that's okay either; we should be striving to make an inclusive workspace for everyone.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#56

Post by oh_sigh » Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

chandra381 wrote: post #6

> One Black employee said her manager suggested in front of colleagues that she was dealing drugs and carrying a gun, trading on racist stereotypes. Another said a co-worker at a recruiting meeting broadly described Black employees as less capable. Still another said managers spoke down to her and her Black colleagues, adding that they were passed over for promotions in favor of less experienced white employees. The…

So do you believe that all the white employees just laughed about this? Did any of them corroborate the allegations?

I work at a FAANG and a massive percentage of employees are rabidly anti-racist, and wouldn't stand for anything like that. Are coinbase employees just cut from a different cloth?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#57

Post by slg » Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 6:47 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #54

slg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What else can they do if they are really innocent? Innocent of what exactly? At a certain point whether the leadership of Coinbase is racist or not doesn't matter. What matters is their actions. The article says "roughly three-quarters of the Black employees" left the company over a 6 month span due to feelings of being discriminated against. That isn't an accusation. It is a fact. It also isn't something that will…

It's a fact, but it means nothing without context. I punched a man in the face yesterday. To determine if I'm a violent person it's important to know whether I punched a man who was pushing his child on a swing set, or whether I punched a man who was crawling through a window in my home.

What context would exonerate Coinbase of fostering an environment that results in 75% of its Black employees feeling discriminated against? And if that context existed, why didn't Coinbase mention it in their preemptive rebuttal?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#58

Post by zpeti » Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 6:52 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #57

oh_sigh wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fact, but it means nothing without context. I punched a man in the face yesterday. To determine if I'm a violent person it's important to know whether I punched a man who was pushing his child on a swing set, or whether I punched a man who was crawling through a window in my home.

What context would exonerate Coinbase of fostering an environment that results in 75% of its Black employees feeling discriminated against? And if that context existed, why didn't Coinbase mention it in their preemptive rebuttal?

How about the CEO refusing to align with far left politics? Whether you think that is good or bad, that could well be the reason for them leaving, but it doesn't actually mean that there was overt racism.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#59

Post by vmception » Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

RestlessMind wrote: post #33

From Coinbase's preemptive rebuttal[1]: "we hired an external consultant in August of this year who specializes in data science and diversity and inclusion to cull through all of our historic data related to diversity ... and conduct a high volume of interviews with employees representing all background, functions, and tenures to understand the employee experience. The independent investigation concluded that there w…

"Proving innocence" is as tone deaf as their autistic CEO

(who in the article is quoted himself as saying his behavior is because he's on the spectrum.)

Brian Armstrong shut himself in because he doesn't want to deal with it. He doesn't know how to deal with it. All of Coinbase's actions are guided by the consequences, for example, they never needed to address their flash crash because they just needed to placate customers while they were closing a 9 figure funding round announced a few weeks later. They aren't worried about precedent, they are worried about keeping the ship afloat long enough to sell shares to Robinhood traders. This strategy works.

They can also create an inclusive environment that allows them to address underserved markets more accurately. They didn't.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#60

Post by tptacek » Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 6:54 PM UTC

zpeti wrote: post #58

slg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What context would exonerate Coinbase of fostering an environment that results in 75% of its Black employees feeling discriminated against? And if that context existed, why didn't Coinbase mention it in their preemptive rebuttal?

How about the CEO refusing to align with far left politics? Whether you think that is good or bad, that could well be the reason for them leaving, but it doesn't actually mean that there was overt racism.

I don't understand the premise here. Most of their Black employees left, not their far left employees.