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Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

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Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#51

Post by dahfizz »

save_ferris wrote: post #11
dcolkitt wrote: post #8

The biggest thing from the employer side is that the cost of a single bad hire can be potentially enormous. This is a combination of legal (threat of wrongful termination lawsuits, COBRA) and cultural (nobody likes to feel like a jerk boss, morale problems among the remaining employees). The rule of thumb among managers is don't hire anybody unless you're 90% sure they'll work out for at least a year. That creates a…

> What we need is another category of transitional employment, with both much lighter regulatory barriers to turnover as well as more relaxed cultural expectations about job security. In the olden days we'd call this an "apprentice". Today it might be an "intern", but the general expectation is that only applies to very young workers- not those respelling or making a lateral move. I agree that this is a good idea, bu…

If that is the case, why are internship positions still so popular? It's a great way for a company to "try out" new employees, and get them up to speed before actually hiring them. I know lots of places offer internships.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#52

Post by [deleted] »

an_opabinia wrote: post #46
toomuchtodo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing renewables, as well as installing EV charging stations and upgrading electrical infrastructure is going to be a Herculean effort, lots of good jobs to provide for folks in that domain. I believe many on Native American lands still don’t have running water, internet, or power. Should be a top priority for such a jobs corps.

When Alaska and Wyoming have the same number of senators as California and New York, the problem becomes not the lack of resources or even the wild inefficiency of serving rural communities, which are problems everywhere in the world that nonetheless have better infrastructure, but plainly, Republicans, which only exist here.

[deleted]

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#53

Post by unishark »

i_haz_rabies wrote: post #39
ryan-duve wrote: post #2

It seems to me the title would have been better named "Why reskilling will probably not guarantee you a new job". The first two thirds of the article about how and why this doesn't happen, and it sums up with what appears to be the exception. That said, I couldn't agree with the closing more: "You've got to work so hard at it and do all these extra activities and just immerse yourself fully. Without that passion, I c…

I find this passion argument accurate, yet distasteful. We as a society should not expect adults with dependents to do the "passionate, young, single developer" grind just to get a steady job because their old one is automated or outsourced. This is not healthy even for the stereotypical CS grad, much less your average out-of-work auto plant worker.

I think it's more about the energy level needed to get over the learning curve. Like learning a new language, if you aren't really serious it isn't going to happen, and going at it slower makes it take disproportionately longer, making it disproportionately more likely you'll get frustrated and give up before you succeed at it.

As for younger versus older, I'd say this is a screening process that filters young people out even more if anything. When it comes to students in a MS program, older students are much more able to handle it in my experience.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#54

Post by granzymes »

aroundtown wrote: post #24
bilbo0s wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality, employers report difficulty hiring because the wages they offer don’t match the skills they’re after, she says AND only about 60 to 70% of US computing and engineering graduates land jobs in STEM I don't know man? The implication there is that there exist up to 30-40% of new computing and engineering grads who on the one hand are without jobs in STEM, and on the other are willing to leave the STEM jobs th…

One of those 30-40% checking in. When I graduated with a CS degree in '07 (US) the first job offer I received was for $25k. I was so angry at that offer. I told the hiring manager that I couldn't possibly work for less than $35k they scoffed at that, I told them no thanks. I could make more money flipping burgers. I kept looking for work. Had another offer for $32k with one week of vacation a year, and no health care…

> The second thing that frustrates me is the sheer number of people that I have interacted with that have pulled the ladder up behind them once they make it out.

Could you expand on that?

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#55

Post by smnrchrds »

dcolkitt wrote: post #9
bilbo0s wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality, employers report difficulty hiring because the wages they offer don’t match the skills they’re after, she says AND only about 60 to 70% of US computing and engineering graduates land jobs in STEM I don't know man? The implication there is that there exist up to 30-40% of new computing and engineering grads who on the one hand are without jobs in STEM, and on the other are willing to leave the STEM jobs th…

There are good paying jobs outside STEM. Finance, consulting, media, law (especially IP law if you have a bachelors in STEM), etc. If an engineering grad decides to become an actuary or management consultant or investment banker, that doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't find a STEM job.

Ontario Society of Professional Engineers did a study on engineering labour maker in Ontario 5 years ago. Their findings show that this is not the reason behind the majority of people with engineering degrees doing non-engineering work. I don't know how the results compare to those in the US or UK, but it certainly is an eye-opening data point. Some highlights:

- According to the 2011 NHS, only 29.7 per cent (67,045 out of 225,490) of employed individuals in Ontario with bachelor’s degrees or higher in engineering were working as engineers or engineering managers. A further 37 per cent (83,365 out of 225,490) worked in professional positions that normally require a university degree. In other words, only just over 65 per cent of employed Ontarians with engineering degrees were gainfully employed in professions that normally require or benefit from having a university degree.

- Those who were not working as engineers and were working in positions that don’t necessarily require a degree made up fully 33.3 per cent (75,090 out of 225,490) of the total.

So, as an engineering graduate, you are more likely to work in a job that does not require a degree, than in a job that requires an engineering degree.

https://www.ospe.on.ca/public/documents/advocacy/2015-crisis...

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#56

Post by victor9000 »

alistairSH wrote: post #43
aroundtown wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of those 30-40% checking in. When I graduated with a CS degree in '07 (US) the first job offer I received was for $25k. I was so angry at that offer. I told the hiring manager that I couldn't possibly work for less than $35k they scoffed at that, I told them no thanks. I could make more money flipping burgers. I kept looking for work. Had another offer for $32k with one week of vacation a year, and no health care…

That's insane. Are you in a small market or something?

That's what I was thinking. $45K is absurd for an engineering job, so it's gotta be in a place like Kansas.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#57

Post by elcritch »

an_opabinia wrote: post #46
toomuchtodo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing renewables, as well as installing EV charging stations and upgrading electrical infrastructure is going to be a Herculean effort, lots of good jobs to provide for folks in that domain. I believe many on Native American lands still don’t have running water, internet, or power. Should be a top priority for such a jobs corps.

When Alaska and Wyoming have the same number of senators as California and New York, the problem becomes not the lack of resources or even the wild inefficiency of serving rural communities, which are problems everywhere in the world that nonetheless have better infrastructure, but plainly, Republicans, which only exist here.

As someone currently living in Wyoming, I’m really disconcerted by SanFran when I visit, as an example. At least Wyoming’s low taxes (no state income tax) and low population explain the state of the infrastructure. SanFran? Not so much, it’s a golden child of incredible economic success, liberal ideals, and horrible (political) mis-management. The issues on infrastructure in the US run much more than Red vs Blue. It’s deeply ingrained in the modern American culture across the board.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#58

Post by freetime2 »

credit_guy wrote: post #50
freetime2 wrote: post #18

> Why, then, do policymakers and business leaders continue to focus on reskilling? Lafer thinks it gives them an easy way out by laying the blame for workers’ dim employment prospects on their failure to acquire the right skills rather than facing up to deeper structural changes in the economy. He says that a better option might be a push for better pay and conditions in other in demand industries that employ lots of…

And what if you don't have the skills to build up roads, clean our cities, provide services? Do you reskill?

I picked those examples as jobs that I don’t imagine require any specialist training (at entry levels), with requisite skills being learned via on-the-job training.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#59

Post by _they »

bluedays wrote: post #14
ryan-duve wrote: post #2

It seems to me the title would have been better named "Why reskilling will probably not guarantee you a new job". The first two thirds of the article about how and why this doesn't happen, and it sums up with what appears to be the exception. That said, I couldn't agree with the closing more: "You've got to work so hard at it and do all these extra activities and just immerse yourself fully. Without that passion, I c…

Agreed. Transitioning into tech for this very reason has yielding amazing results for me.

Same. In three years of immersing myself in my passion (pentesting/vuln research), I've tripled my income and vastly improved my quality of life. A lot of it was just going after my area of interest vs listening to other people tell me what I "need" to do before I go there.

Again, probably not the route if you aren't interested in it though... Not saying you need to wake up, hack, sleep, repeat, but you probably won't be able to "tough it out for a paycheck"... There needs to be a substantial level of passion/interest in the subject for it to work. IMO, that's where it goes wrong for a lot of people. They get excited about buying a bootcamp or whatever, but then quickly find out that it isn't for them and lose interest, or worse, go through the motions and then wonder why it isn't working...

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#60

Post by yurishimo »

victor9000 wrote: post #56
alistairSH wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's insane. Are you in a small market or something?

That's what I was thinking. $45K is absurd for an engineering job, so it's gotta be in a place like Kansas.

I worked in Kansas and made 45k at a small agency. It was one of the larger college towns and I worked my way up from $12/hr as the company grew, thanks to my help.

Rural Kansas dev might aspire to 45k but even then. I think they might just live in a small town and don’t want to look for work elsewhere. Which is fine, just know the salary comes with the territory. Half the reasons tech pays what it does is because a lot of the jobs are in expensive cities.

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