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Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

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Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#51
post #24
post #19

It will be interesting to see whether patents will make this a defensible innovation. Will AMD et all have to invent a similar but materially different technology in order to keep pace?

Considering Intel first announced the Tri-Gate tech in 2002 AMD would have to had been working on something for 9 years to be launching a competitor anytime soon.

Why wouldn't they have been?

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#52
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of things of a given size you can fit on a plane within distance R of you is proportional to R^2. The number of things you can fit in a three dimensional space is R^3. So as we utilize 3D more and more things will tend to be closer together.

They're closer together, but the distance traveled in total is the same. Imagine the transistors are pieces of paper, and you're drawing a line over them. If the paper is flat, then you're drawing a line of distance n , and the points are n apart. If you fold the ends of the paper together, then the points are 0 units apart (or near enough to make no matter), but that line still has a distance of n .

The previous commenter wasn't talking about this transistor 3d feature, but about stacked transistors. Just like a city full or high-rise buildings can pack a lot more people in per square mile, a stacked transistor IC could pack a lot more transistors per square mm.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#53
post #11

Anyone know if the 3D structure is patented by Intel? If so, wouldn't this give Intel a monopoly on transistors given how much better this new design performs?

No this design was developed back when I was in college, the revolutionary change here is that Intel has a process to actually manufacture these things effectively and get decent yield. IBM had these things built in test cases back in 2007 but didn't have a manufacturing method.

Intel will likely not patent or reveal the manufacturing method thats how most semiconductor manufacturing technologies go. They tend to be trade secrets that are a combination of process and machinery which your competitors are unlikely to ever reproduce exactly, so no point in patenting it.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#54
post #11

Anyone know if the 3D structure is patented by Intel? If so, wouldn't this give Intel a monopoly on transistors given how much better this new design performs?

Intel doesn't have a monopoly on the technique, just a big technological head start. From the Anandtech article on this:"Intel isn't expecting its competitors to move to a similar technology until 14nm."

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#56

I think this will mostly help increase the life expectancy of the Moore's Law by another 10 years or so. When we'll get to 11nm or whatever is the limit, we'll just start stacking layers of transistors on each other. That will only work until the chips become too thick, though.

Intel is projecting to be at 10nm in 2015, way ahead of the industry lithography roadmaps published five or ten years ago.

Below 10nm, Intel and other fabricators will start looking beyond CMOS, perhaps to carbon based structures.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#57

Will this allow them to increase clock speeds? They mention a 37% perf increase, but I don't know what exactly they mean by that.

No, that limit has been hit by the physical structure of Silicon itself. The perf has to do with more transistors per square area, thus you could fit more "cores" into a single chip or for example, it takes me 2mil transistors to make a 5 clock cycle multiplier but I could get a 1 clock cycle multiplier if I used 5mil transistors. I didn't use to have the physical real estate to do it, now I would, so I'd do the same operation in 1/5 the time.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#58
post #29

I often wonder at the incredibly small size of these chips (22nm) if the have to worry about relativistic effects of electrons "jumping".

Short answer yes.

Thats how transistors work in general, but the problem is you get small enough and its like the transistors want to turn them-selfs on, luckily the smaller you go the more leakage you get into other areas of the chip so those extra electrons just get seeped into there and ground out which mostly causes you to pull more power per square area.

You real issue is if those "jumping" electrons get wedged into corners near gates, then they can leave a transistor on permanently. But that's all part of the chip design process to avoid that kind of thing.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#59
post #37

sometimes i feel like intel should space out their chips more. as a consumer i feel like i can't keep up.

Why do you need to keep up?

As a consumer he might not have any good reason to do so, but look at it from Intel's perspective: They're potentially not getting the best return on their R&D investment by encouraging customers to regularly skip generations.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#60

This is the sort of thing I read and think to myself "go check HN comments where someone smart will explain this in layman's terms"

Agreed. It's all magic to me but it seems like, if this breakthrough can keep Moore's Law chugging, it's worth a pretty penny. I'm surprised their stock isn't up more today.
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