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Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

nytimes.com

51–60 of 210 posts

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#51
post #6

I watch/read a lot of history and I am always curious, if you traveled back in time how would you treat gout? Without medications to manage uric acid what would you do for Ben Franklin, DaVinci, Michelangelo or Charlemagne? Have them lose weight? Stay away from foods X, Y, and Z but eat more of A/B/C? Does exercise help/hurt? Are there any herbs etc that we know today would lower uric acid which you could find with y…

DaVinci would hardly get gout as he was basically a vegetarian.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#52
post #49
post #30

Dispelling bullshit time. Gout isn't caused by what you eat, it's an underlying problem with your kidneys/liver/body and an inability to extract uric acid. It can be exasterbated by drinking beer, dehydration, red meat etc. Saying it's caused by what you eat is a bit like saying peanuts cause peanut allergies, or eating gluten causes coeliacs. You already have the condition, the things you eat makes it worse. I've be…

This is not entirely true. Gout is caused by excessive levels of uric acid, which is an end-product of purine metabolism. You can get uric acid via two pathophysiologic mechanisms: under-excretion of uric acid, or over-production. Under-excretion is by far and away the most common cause of gout (think ~90% of cases). Causes for this include things like chronic kidney disease or an inborne/hereditary problem (like you…

Wait a minute, how did red meat make its way into this post?

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#53
Started having severe gout attacks in 2004. Doctors are particularly unaware about gout. Despite having extremely painful and long attacks (during one attack, spent more than a month in bed unable to walk), all the doctors I saw had no idea despite endless tests. Finally based on my own research I suggested gout and they were like "oh yes, I suppose it could be that".

Once diagnosed, doctors are quick to get you on daily drugs for the rest of your life. While these help, there's a price to be paid in liver damage from chronic medication.

I spent the next ~8 years bouncing from attack to attack despite the drugs, sometimes every few weeks, sometimes months would go by. Finally around 2012 I stumbled on the work of Robert Lustig (UCSF medicine professor) and particularly this talk (not about gout, but touches on it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Fructose is processed by the body into: uric acid. Finally light bulb moment! I hardly ate any of the things traditionally associated with gout (red meat, shellfish) so couldn't modify my diet based on those. But fructose? Yes, turns out I was consuming way too much.

I drastically cut back on fructose, limiting myself to no more than 10g/day. I have been gout-free now for 7 years. I don't take any gout drugs anymore. Just avoid fructose at all cost.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#54
post #49
post #30

Dispelling bullshit time. Gout isn't caused by what you eat, it's an underlying problem with your kidneys/liver/body and an inability to extract uric acid. It can be exasterbated by drinking beer, dehydration, red meat etc. Saying it's caused by what you eat is a bit like saying peanuts cause peanut allergies, or eating gluten causes coeliacs. You already have the condition, the things you eat makes it worse. I've be…

This is not entirely true. Gout is caused by excessive levels of uric acid, which is an end-product of purine metabolism. You can get uric acid via two pathophysiologic mechanisms: under-excretion of uric acid, or over-production. Under-excretion is by far and away the most common cause of gout (think ~90% of cases). Causes for this include things like chronic kidney disease or an inborne/hereditary problem (like you…

> most diuretics

Does that include caffeine and phenylalanine?

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#55

I had my first gout attack on August 14th 2018 at just 24, following a night filled with liquor and red meat. Though I’ve gone through periods of continuous activity, it’s safe to say I lead a somewhat sedentary life. Today, at 26, I have been free of major gout symptoms since my first attack 2 years ago. Though I occasionally get mild inflammation in my gout-prone foot if I stray too far from my diet, I’ve been effe…

I had mine at about the same age or maybe a little younger - my foot was so swollen, and so sensitive that doctors couldn't believe it was anything other than a break, sprain or some other gross damage. When the X-Ray came back clear, and a blood test showed high Uric Acid they were stunned. Still, I had no further symptoms for several years. Then I had another, then it became a yearly thing and now I'm on Allopurino…

> My doctors insist that I cut down my drinking (I don't drink), my consumption of red meat (some, but not much) and a variety of other things which mostly don't apply to me.

See my other post in this topic. Try cutting way down on fructose.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#56
post #3

I had my first gout attack on August 14th 2018 at just 24, following a night filled with liquor and red meat. Though I’ve gone through periods of continuous activity, it’s safe to say I lead a somewhat sedentary life. Today, at 26, I have been free of major gout symptoms since my first attack 2 years ago. Though I occasionally get mild inflammation in my gout-prone foot if I stray too far from my diet, I’ve been effe…

I do not want to squash your hopes but with dietary changes alone it is not possible to stop progression of gout. In a few years you will probably start having more frequent attacks. Lossing weight is little more effective. Keeping your uric acid well below 6.0 mg/dL is when the process starts very very slowly reversing. Fortunately there is a better understanding of the dissease and more new therapies in the pipelin…

> I do not want to squash your hopes but with dietary changes alone it is not possible to stop progression of gout.

We all might get gout for different reasons but the generalization of "with dietary changes alone it is not possible to stop progression of gout" is not true. I have completely stopped my gout attacks by cutting way back on fructose.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#57
post #53

Started having severe gout attacks in 2004. Doctors are particularly unaware about gout. Despite having extremely painful and long attacks (during one attack, spent more than a month in bed unable to walk), all the doctors I saw had no idea despite endless tests. Finally based on my own research I suggested gout and they were like "oh yes, I suppose it could be that". Once diagnosed, doctors are quick to get you on d…

By cutting out “fructose” surely you don’t mean cutting out fruit? Do mean derivatives like fructose syrup and stuff?

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#58

> Some scientists point to the dramatic rise in rates of obesity — from 13.4 percent of adults in 1980 to 42.4 percent in 2017-18, again per the NHANES — since excess weight depresses kidney efficiency, and to the likely not unrelated introduction, in 1967, of high-fructose corn syrup , which can cause the body to produce higher levels of uric acid, and its wholesale embrace in the early 1980s by the American food in…

Sugar does seem to be involved in gout but high fructose corn syrup is basically indistinguishable from sugar metabolically.

That is not true. Natural sugar (e.g. sugar cane) is 50% fructose. HFCS is by definition a compound sugar with more than 50% of fructose. How much higher, depends on the manufacturer.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#59

I had my first gout attack on August 14th 2018 at just 24, following a night filled with liquor and red meat. Though I’ve gone through periods of continuous activity, it’s safe to say I lead a somewhat sedentary life. Today, at 26, I have been free of major gout symptoms since my first attack 2 years ago. Though I occasionally get mild inflammation in my gout-prone foot if I stray too far from my diet, I’ve been effe…

Gout at 24? Congrats on the new record!

But seriously, the US as a society needs to get a handle on our level of decadence before things truly spiral out of control.

The destruction of the nuclear family and metabolic illnesses are epidemics more serious than corona.

Just look at any youth group photo from the 1960s - nobody is fat.

Here's a thought experiment. Imagine a normal-weighted young man who walks into a military recruiting center today. He would be like chum for Jaws.

https://www.healio.com/news/rheumatology/20180808/patients-w...

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#60
post #57
post #53

Started having severe gout attacks in 2004. Doctors are particularly unaware about gout. Despite having extremely painful and long attacks (during one attack, spent more than a month in bed unable to walk), all the doctors I saw had no idea despite endless tests. Finally based on my own research I suggested gout and they were like "oh yes, I suppose it could be that". Once diagnosed, doctors are quick to get you on d…

By cutting out “fructose” surely you don’t mean cutting out fruit? Do mean derivatives like fructose syrup and stuff?

I avoid fructose, from any and all sources. Yes, it does mean limiting fruits but I eat them in moderation within my self-imposed 10g/day limit. I sometimes go up to 25g/day but only on special occasions no more than once a month or so.

Here's one list of fructose content per type of fruit. I mostly stick to the ones with least fructose:

http://nograiner.com/ingredients/fructose-content-common-fru...

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