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Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

blog.jacopo.io

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Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#51

Not sure whether the non-privacy related aspect about OCSP is less worrying. Officially Apple does this to protect innocent users from malware, but as we've seen it also allows them to remotely disable any developers' software. Not really something that I'd want on my machine.

OCSP also allows CAs to revoke random websites’ certificates, yet nobody is making a big fuss about that (presumably because no OCSP server has encountered what Apple’s did and prevented websites from opening).

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#53
post #40

While other posts on this topic are too alarmist, this one is way too Apple apologetic for my taste. * There is no information on how often the validation happens. All this investigation concludes is that it doesn't happen when closing and immediately re-opening an app. Is it every week? Every reboot? Every hour? If it's less, that's essentially the same as doing it on every launch. * There is no justification for se…

I feel Apple has done privacy well in so many cases, that the way this works is really disappointing :-/

Apple has done a fantastic PR job regarding privacy. I am more skeptical about the status of actual privacy given their iMessage situation and now this.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#54

While other posts on this topic are too alarmist, this one is way too Apple apologetic for my taste. * There is no information on how often the validation happens. All this investigation concludes is that it doesn't happen when closing and immediately re-opening an app. Is it every week? Every reboot? Every hour? If it's less, that's essentially the same as doing it on every launch. * There is no justification for se…

Wait. Is it not common knowledge that Android and iOS log every application you open down to the exact millisecond you open and close them?

Is it not common knowledge how telemetry works for the operating systems? They generally batch up a bunch of logs like this, encrypt them, compress them, and then send them to the mothership (hopefully when you're on WiFi).

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#55
I think it would help if someone could quote or reference Apple's official position / explanation on this (if there is one).

You know, before declaring the end of the world, is there any information from the source (Apple)? Discussions here seem to have had several thousand comments without obtaining this basic info. It would be good to know, I would think?

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#56
post #40

While other posts on this topic are too alarmist, this one is way too Apple apologetic for my taste. * There is no information on how often the validation happens. All this investigation concludes is that it doesn't happen when closing and immediately re-opening an app. Is it every week? Every reboot? Every hour? If it's less, that's essentially the same as doing it on every launch. * There is no justification for se…

I feel Apple has done privacy well in so many cases, that the way this works is really disappointing :-/

A better privacy solution would be to sync revocation lists every so often (and, if you must, right before opening a new app). Is there any privacy-preserving reason to not go this direction? How often would you expect certificates to be rescinded? You could also use a bloom filter to significantly reduce the false-positive rate.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#57

If anyone is concerned with ocsp activity and verifications being requested all over the web, then oh boy stay away from https. OCSP is a good thing, and the web - and your signed applications - are better off with it.

I guess you haven't heard of OCSP stapling? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCSP_stapling

Active OCSP is far from being considered a good thing universally.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learn about Big Sur(veillance). You can't block telemetry and it bypasses any VPN.

Seems to work fine here, nothing bypasses my VPN nor does it bypass my firewall. Perhaps that's because my VPN and my firewall aren't running inside the computer but external to it, as it should.

The direction we are going is built in cell comms for all devices, good luck firewalling that.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#59

While other posts on this topic are too alarmist, this one is way too Apple apologetic for my taste. * There is no information on how often the validation happens. All this investigation concludes is that it doesn't happen when closing and immediately re-opening an app. Is it every week? Every reboot? Every hour? If it's less, that's essentially the same as doing it on every launch. * There is no justification for se…

> There is no information on how often the validation happens.

I wrote a blog post about this. My analysis indicates that Developer ID OCSP responses were previously cached for 5 minutes, but Apple changed it to half a day after Thursday's outage, probably to reduce traffic:

https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/ocsp.html

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#60
Has anyone used a pi-hole to block apple privileged servers, like the OCSP one, while running Big Sur? I'm thinking of setting one up---not necessarily to block OCSP, because the points in this post about actually wanting to know when a certificate has been revoked are sensible---but to at least have the option in case of another disaster...

Relatedly, does anyone know if Big Sur allows one to use a custom DNS server on the device level with those privileged destinations? (He says, mulling the complexities of getting a pi-hole working with his mesh system.)

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