>What I walk away with: $3,700,000 in cash >practically speaking, never need to work again Yikes, does someone want to tell him?
You seem pretty sure of yourself— you must know his existing savings and cost of living?
I sold Baremetrics
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Re: I sold Baremetrics
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depends on the employees and when they joined and if they exercised stock options or not. Big range from a few thousand to over $80,000.
$80k for how many years of work? Unless it’s one, I’m with the parent. I’m sure it’s all legal and ‘equitable’ according to the terms, but that’s peanuts of a return for somewhere between 4 and 7 years of work (based off a typical vesting schedule).
None of his employees were there that long from what I can tell. The initial employees got laid off I think 4 years ago and were probably there 1-3 years (who knows if any bought out their equity). Current employees were there 1-3 years. Only two current engineers from what I can tell. It also depends on how much salary they were paid as many people will take cash over equity.
Re: I sold Baremetrics
#53>What I walk away with: $3,700,000 in cash >practically speaking, never need to work again Yikes, does someone want to tell him?
In most places of the world 20% of that are enough never needing to work again.
Re: I sold Baremetrics
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
dimva also has his sums very wrong, 3.7 mill over 7 years is over 500k per year, you won't get that at any FAANG for a mid-level position.
GOOG has 3x'd in the past 7 years, FB has 10x'd, AMZN has 10x'd, etc. The initial stock grants would be worth a lot more, plus all the refreshers. My friends who are decent software engineers with a few years of experience are getting offers in the >$500k range right now. And I'm assuming that he would have been promoted at some point. I am comparing what someone with his skills could have earned at a FAMANG, not wha…
> My friends who are decent software engineers with a few years of experience are getting offers in the >$500k range right now. ... not what an average software developer would earn...
Which is it? "Decent" developers being courted with $500k+ offers or "average" developers can't get jobs?
Re: I sold Baremetrics
#55Wait, so your investors lose money, your employees (probably just a few) got at most $80k, and you get to retire? I mean, congrats on the hustle, but I wouldn’t waste your time trying to make it look good for everyone else.
The founder usually carries the majority of the risk as well.
Re: I sold Baremetrics
#56I know there's a trope about the naive founder getting screwed by shifty-eyed VC sharks, but it really sounds like Josh screwed his investors and employees here. > I wanted them to at least get their money back, but ultimately, for the $4m purchase price to work, we’d need to ask them to walk on their [$800,000] investment. He clearly didn't want it very badly, then. Nearly $3 million wasn't enough? That's about $420…
The fact that people on hacker news are angry about this cracks me up. The vast majority of folks here really are the crotchety programmers.
Yes, a founder gets compensated significantly more than early employees. Massive shocker. If those early employees were talented enough, they’d be founders getting compensated.
I don’t know when this dramatic shift happened to Americans to believe building a successful company is mostly luck, but it’s depressing.
Shame on you, HN.
Re: I sold Baremetrics
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. Why on earth would investors agree to not getting their money back? Did they get anything? It doesn’t sound like it. What are we missing here?
"A small but reasonable exit is life-changing for me, and a nulled-out investment is expected for you in most of your investments." Some investors are gonna be ruthless sharks. Others are not.
It might make them more attractive to the next generation of founders, especially if it is widely communicated as here.
Advertising money well spent?
Re: I sold Baremetrics
#58Wait, so your investors lose money, your employees (probably just a few) got at most $80k, and you get to retire? I mean, congrats on the hustle, but I wouldn’t waste your time trying to make it look good for everyone else.
You people really don’t understand the concept of risk do you
Re: I sold Baremetrics
#59$3.7 million sounds like a lot of money, but he could have earned more than that over 7 years if he just took a mid-level job at a FAMANG company. EDIT: saw that the founder lives in Birmingham, Alabama. So yes, $3.7 million IS a lot of money.
This reminds me of a recently decried point the British government made encouraging people in the arts to consider technical jobs: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/12/ballet-danc...
Josh seems to be extremely entrepreneurial and independent (https://joshpigford.com/projects) and maybe being a part of a trillion dollar machine isn't worth the $ to him. He succeeded doing what he wanted to do and that's fantastic.
Admittedly, people's attitudes to work differ immensely and being able to live the entrepreneurial life is a privilege, but from my POV, you only live once, so $3.7m made from several years of doing things your own way would handily beat even $10m made from several years of employment (and neither are guaranteed).
Re: I sold Baremetrics
#60The part about the investors getting nothing while the founder gets millions is really interesting. How does something like that even happen?
Agreed. Why on earth would investors agree to not getting their money back? Did they get anything? It doesn’t sound like it. What are we missing here?
tax loss harvesting