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Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

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Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#51

Post by betwixthewires »

shaicoleman wrote: post #36

The culture of any community is shaped by the worst behaviour that is tolerated. Related: Why unmoderated online forums always degenerate into fascism https://www.salon.com/2019/08/05/why-unmoderated-online-foru...

But this is historically inaccurate. The issue of forums becoming hateful echo chambers is a new phenomenon, not a time tested one. Digg wasn't a terrible hateful echo chamber, reddit was not, most topic oriented forums are not, lots of alternative sites springing up nowadays are not, Facebook, MySpace, the list goes on.

No, the phenomenon that lasted really only a few years was due to the fact that the first Diasporas kicked off of those sites (or that left due to crack downs on their expression) were existing hateful communities. There's a name for the effect that I can't quite remember, but basically new communities are unsavory at first because they're made up of the unsavory characters that are unwelcome at the other communities, and this prevents their growth.

Thankfully we are currently seeing that effect wind down as well. With the increase in moderation beyond plainly hateful content, now to anything a site deems unlikeable, you're seeing those Diasporas become less and less unsavory and more mainstream sets of ideas are being discussed on the newer forums.

I regard articles like the one you linked as yellow journalism, designed to discredit people's desire to collect and discuss ideas online, freely, and argue in favor of places where ideas cannot be discussed freely. If there is any one thing that causes sites to become hateful, it is the need for the site to promote "engaging" content for as profit, something you are less likely to see on newer sites with less commercial pressure.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#53

Post by betwixthewires »

tmarice wrote: post #21
berryworm wrote: post #14

What would it take to replace Twitter and Facebook?

Twitter already has a replacement https://gab.com/

Gab is not a better alternative.

For a thing to be a better alternative it would need to have structural differences that ensure it will not devolve as Twitter has. Gab is essentially a carbon copy of Twitter, but for a different set of ideas.

Pleroma and Mastodon (as well as other ActivityPub enabled microblogging software) are the only real, better alternatives that exist right now.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#54

Post by k32 »

onion2k wrote: post #27
OneGuy123 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironicaly you missed the most important point: who decides what is fake news? You still don't get it that _NO ONE_ can claim they know what is/is not fake news because everyone has their own incentives.

You still don't get it that _NO ONE_ can claim they know what is/is not fake news because everyone has their own incentives. This is precisely why it's important that Twitter calls out when things are stated as fact without evidence. Twitter never actually say things are fake; they say things are baseless and without evidence. If you want to post things that are influential you simply need to back that claim up with…

> This is precisely why it's important that Twitter calls out when things are stated as fact without evidence.

Twitter is a platform for stating things as fact without evidence. 120 (or whatever it is now) character limit is not suitable for having cogent conversations.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#55

Post by betwixthewires »

Isinlor wrote: post #10
aww_dang wrote: post #2

Objective truth as revealed to us by the anointed technocrats and fact checkers has been accepted by partisans where it suits their biases. Questioning these official truths amounts to blasphemy in the social media space. The premise of democracy rests upon the concept of free and open debate. If we cannot trust the public to consume information without hand holding, why should we trust them to vote on issues which i…

True censorship is when government does it. If you go to jail for promoting some information, that's censorship. Twitter and Facebook are part of "the public". You are even using right now a website very heavy on "censorship", or how I call it "moderation". If you don't follow HN guidelines you will be silenced. The efforts by members of public to reduce spread of misinformation and polarization is part of why we sho…

Censorship is the hiding of information and prevention of publishing. that's it. That's the definition.

HNs guidelines appear to be "put some effort into what you say and don't fight." They're not censoring any particular set of ideas.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#56

Post by betwixthewires »

input_sh wrote: post #34
Isinlor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True censorship is when government does it. If you go to jail for promoting some information, that's censorship. Twitter and Facebook are part of "the public". You are even using right now a website very heavy on "censorship", or how I call it "moderation". If you don't follow HN guidelines you will be silenced. The efforts by members of public to reduce spread of misinformation and polarization is part of why we sho…

Try posting anything remotely leftist on Parler and you'll be banned in less than a week. My profile lasted about 36 hours. Completely the opposite experience of what quite literally is the first sentence on their homepage: > Speak freely and express yourself openly, without fear of being “deplatformed” for your views.

Parler is a joke, but I believe that this censorship problem is a structural one, that is, any "network" that is just a website is inevitably going to become an echo chamber where opinions differing from the target demographic are censored.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#57

Post by aww_dang »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #50
mewse wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things get flagged and removed on HN with some degree of regularity, for what it’s worth.

The day HN's moderation becomes as blatantly biased as Twitter is, I'll leave HN too.

I don't always agree, but on the balance HN's moderation is pretty good.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#58

Post by rbecker »

jmull wrote: post #30

I’ll just point out: if you’re a free speech purist, you are perfectly OK with this. Twitter isn’t removing these tweets, just adding their own messages. That is, they are responding to free speech with their own free speech. If they use this feature on high-profile figures it’s even better: free speech to authority.

Do you think it's possible to hold an opinion other than "this should be illegal" and "this is OK"?

Do you think even free speech purists can see the danger in allowing too much influence concentrated in too few hands?

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#59

Post by betwixthewires »

Traster wrote: post #23
OneGuy123 wrote: post #3

Who defines "misinformation"? The mainstream media? "If the news are fake imagine history". People need to understand that NO ONE can define what is "misinformation" because all sides have incentives to lie. This is purely thought policing.

Ok firstly, it's policing speech, not thought. Secondly, it's not policing it, it's basically putting a speed-bump. Thirdly, Twitter defines misinformation -it's their platform, they get to make that call. Also, people talk about "Fake news" from mainstream media, but actually, the examples of the mainstream media reporting literally incorreect information is pretty rare, and has real world consequences when it happe…

> Twitter defines misinformation -it's their platform, they get to make that call.

Sure. But if they choose to do that, it is not a place where you can expect to share ideas and have real discussions with people. It becomes a place where perception is crafted, something those of us who actually want to use the internet as opposed to a TV channel are trying to avoid.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#60

Post by aww_dang »

richardARPANET wrote: post #49
OneGuy123 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironicaly you missed the most important point: who decides what is fake news? You still don't get it that _NO ONE_ can claim they know what is/is not fake news because everyone has their own incentives.

There's little point trying to explain to the HN crowd. They're majority left leaning so are pro-censorship as long as it's not directed at them. The people who are aware that the "fact checkers" have an agenda either won't accept it through mental gymnastics or simply don't care. Something which will come back to bite them. i.e. > Don't let the Orange man speak. Orange man bad!

The challenge is discussing these issues without mentioning this explicitly. Hard to get someone to consider your opinion when they read your comment as an accusation.
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