Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

themarshallproject.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 136 posts

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#51

Post by sleavey »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #25
sleavey wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the fact that smoking remains legal indoors in prisons. I get that there would be extra stress from withdrawal for new inmates, but it might let them quit a nasty, expensive habit while they're in. Plus, it's bad for the health of everyone in there, whether they're smoking or not, including the guards; they have no choice in being able to get away from smokers like you would do on the outside.

>And the fact that smoking remains legal indoors in prisons. This is like saying "OMG, isn't illegal in the US". Prisons are run by the states. Jails are usually run by the counties. Banning tobacco across the board for prisoners and staff is common because it becomes one less potential avenue of illicit trade between the guards and prisoners. Just because there isn't a law against doesn't mean it's not usually prohi…

No need to overreact. My point was that prisons are often exempt from local legislation regarding smoking in indoor public places, in the US and elsewhere [1]. I find this to be strange - it seems to punish prisoners who don't smoke over and above their sentence, and staff.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_ban#Effects_of_prison_...

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#52

Post by Clubber »

thisisnico wrote: post #47
99_00 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, and our focus should be on correcting the societal failures that lead to people ending up there. Because prisons aren't going to away. But we can all agree that we should help people who need it.

As a Canadian, 10 YEARS for a non-violent property crime??? What.

This is typically what "tough on crime" means in the US. Not that they will catch violent criminals faster or better, but they will prosecute minor crimes as if they were violent crimes. It's how many politicians leverage the fear of crime to get elected.

Our criminal justice system is broken where innocent people should fear getting incarcerated because: 1. Almost everything is a crime and 2. Every crime is prosecuted harshly for political points. (look at me, I'm tough on crime, I imprisoned 300 criminals).

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#53

Post by klyrs »

fuzzybear3965 wrote: post #8

What's his plan? Take it day by day? Watch his back? Also (infer no adversarial tone), he seems to imply that he needs to be prepared to defend himself against attack, ostensibly using his lingering Krav Maga skill and instincts. Does that violate his pacifism? Maybe "pacifist", in this context, should be understood to mean "unaffiliated with any gang".

I'm a pacifist and a martial artist. My first approach is de-escalation. That has failed, and I've been attacked by people, and still did not want to hurt those people. Nor will I allow people to simply beat me up. I've defended myself by deflecting and avoiding their attacks, using their momentum against them and whatnot; and when necessary, various holds or joint locks. I've also successfully fled situations where I think others would fight out of a sense of pride.

My approach would not work against somebody significantly larger and/or more skilled than myself. Nor is it effective against a group of assailants. Flight is not an option in confined quarters. I'd probably resort to more harmful techniques if I thought my life was in danger. And I'd significantly regret doing so.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#54

Post by 99_00 »

somebodythere wrote: post #40
99_00 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, and our focus should be on correcting the societal failures that lead to people ending up there. Because prisons aren't going to away. But we can all agree that we should help people who need it.

The societal failings like prisons existing in the first place? The police and courts who supply a steady stream of fodder to the prison-industrial complex? The legislators who create innumerable and overbroad laws to give the above carte blanche to abuse vulnerable groups? By all means, let us get rid of all of these things.

I'm suggesting helping people before they interact with the police and courts.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#55

Post by kanox »

tall wrote: post #2

This is a bleak reminder that prisons are a crime against humanity, no deserves to live in constant fear for their own survival. Not only that but prisoners are a very vulnerable population often exploited for labor, medical experiments and general abuse.

Prisons containing too many people for bad reasons is a separate problem from prisons being violent.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#56

Post by [deleted] »

bigbubba wrote: post #45
somebodythere wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The societal failings like prisons existing in the first place? The police and courts who supply a steady stream of fodder to the prison-industrial complex? The legislators who create innumerable and overbroad laws to give the above carte blanche to abuse vulnerable groups? By all means, let us get rid of all of these things.

Where would you put a rapist, if not in a prison?

[deleted]

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#57

Post by Clubber »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #27
sgt101 wrote: post #11

One horror is the length of sentence - 10 years for a non violent burglary.

>10 years for a non violent burglary. There are two common ways to get a crazy prison sentence. Drug and/or gun possession often acts as a multiplier on sentencing guidelines for whatever the underlying crime is. Multiple contacts with the system (three strikes laws and parole/probation violations) tend to have compounding sentences so screwing up on parole or probation can net you an additional sentence than in addi…

Also fighting the charge typically results in a high sentence, i.e. not taking the plea deal. Prosecutors notoriously over charge and if you fight it, you typically get the over charge time. See Aaron Schwartz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#58

Post by aaomidi »

99_00 wrote: post #10
tall wrote: post #2

This is a bleak reminder that prisons are a crime against humanity, no deserves to live in constant fear for their own survival. Not only that but prisoners are a very vulnerable population often exploited for labor, medical experiments and general abuse.

True, and our focus should be on correcting the societal failures that lead to people ending up there. Because prisons aren't going to away. But we can all agree that we should help people who need it.

> Because prisons aren't going to away.

They should. I don't think this is something I'm willing to change my mind on.

Prisons are literally one of the worst things we've made. They serve no purpose other than to dehumanize, rape, assault, and other fucked shit to "undesirables." It allows us to put problems to be solved to a later date, instead of addressing them head on and making sure it doesn't happen.

Prison should be an optional rehabilitation option for people, with it potentially being forced on a very very small minority of the population. No more than 0.01% of the population should be in forced rehabilitation, and no more than 1% in optional rehabilitation.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#59

Post by aaomidi »

hnracer wrote: post #48
somebodythere wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The societal failings like prisons existing in the first place? The police and courts who supply a steady stream of fodder to the prison-industrial complex? The legislators who create innumerable and overbroad laws to give the above carte blanche to abuse vulnerable groups? By all means, let us get rid of all of these things.

> The societal failings like prisons existing in the first place? Prisons existing is not a societal failure. You can't have a society with 330 million people and not have at least 1 murderer who is relentlessly violent, who needs to be physically confined to protect everyone around them. As soon as you have 1 individual like that (which is almost guaranteed by the law of large numbers irrespective of how good that s…

We're not talking about 1 individual though. The US has the highest prisoner per capita in countries that report this stat.

How many of these people are the Dexter type murderer?

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#60

Post by hnracer »

aaomidi wrote: post #59
hnracer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The societal failings like prisons existing in the first place? Prisons existing is not a societal failure. You can't have a society with 330 million people and not have at least 1 murderer who is relentlessly violent, who needs to be physically confined to protect everyone around them. As soon as you have 1 individual like that (which is almost guaranteed by the law of large numbers irrespective of how good that s…

We're not talking about 1 individual though. The US has the highest prisoner per capita in countries that report this stat. How many of these people are the Dexter type murderer?

All I was disputing was the original statement that prisons existing = societal failing.
Post reply on HN