Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission • Hacker News Board

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#51

Post by lastofthemojito » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 2:55 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #13

s_dev wrote: post #7

Trading under another brands name -- by listing them as an ordering place with an unofficial dark kitchen associated in your app -- seems like the most egregious form of trade mark infringement. Why aren't GrubHub concerned about the legal reprecussions of this?

>Why aren't GrubHub concerned about the legal reprecussions of this? When is the last time a company was SERIOUSLY threatened by the repercussions of doing something illegal in the US? When was the last time a company was fined/sued out of existence for something they were doing to average people?

I know there's been a lot of criticism of the details of the settlement, but Purdue Pharma was sued out of existence by the DOJ last week.

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#52

Post by tartoran » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 2:55 PM UTC

acoard wrote: post #34

mabbo wrote: post #19

I hope there's a strong precedent set here. Companies like Grubhub list restaurants on their site/app, but put the wrong phone number on it- one that goes to their own people instead. That's clearly some kind of fraud or misrepresentation. Makes me feel like I should setup a phone number and a website called something like "GrubhubHelp.com", and list a help number for assistance with GrubHub orders. Then when custome…

Unless I'm missing something, the substantive difference hereis that GrubHub is still ordering from the restaurant that the customer is ordering from. Your comparison of pretending to offer GrubHubHelp but then going to competitors is like if I ordered McDonalds, and you brought me pasta. I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with what GrubHub is doing, but I could see them needing to clearly note the relationship…

> I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with what GrubHub is doing, but I could see them needing to clearly note the relationship. There are lots of personal shopping/delivery services which phone in orders and go pick something up without having a pre-existing relationship with the restaurant.

The problem is that Grubhub is not asking permission to list the business on their site and it borders on abusive behavior. The said business may have an ordering system already or a phone number to order because they simply don't to share a hefty cut with Grubhub. Why they don't simply ask for permission? Because some restaurants wouldn't give it and Grubhub forces their hand. I think this is what this lawsuit is about.

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#53

Post by chrisseaton » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 2:55 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #19

I hope there's a strong precedent set here. Companies like Grubhub list restaurants on their site/app, but put the wrong phone number on it- one that goes to their own people instead. That's clearly some kind of fraud or misrepresentation. Makes me feel like I should setup a phone number and a website called something like "GrubhubHelp.com", and list a help number for assistance with GrubHub orders. Then when custome…

> That's clearly some kind of fraud or misrepresentation.

I don't really understand this point of view.

They're saying you'll get food from restaurant X. That's exactly what you do get, at the price you agreed.

I can't conceive how that's fraud or misrepresentation?

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#54

Post by robflynn » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 2:55 PM UTC

the_only_law wrote: post #32

sharkweek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I know is I’m still waiting for my Equifax settlement check. Any day now, I’m sure!

Heh, in the state I used to live in there was a huge controversy regarding a power company, corrupt politicians, amassive infrastructure project failure who's cost was passed on the the consumer, and strange mergers . People were promised compensation and the the three cent checks eventually trickled in.

Same here, my area's energy company increased their rate sto build a new nuclear plant, spent some of the money, and then never finished it... Years later I think I got a check for $2.67 for that.

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#55

Post by karatinversion » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 2:56 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #15

The “place and pay” orders the lawsuit describes are new to me. I’d always kinda held the position that saying “We’ll deliver you food from Lou’s Diner” doesn’t necessarily imply you’re affiliated. But if Grubhub is telling drivers to disguise themselves because restaurants wouldn’t accept the order if they knew it was from Grubhub, that seems pretty clearly unethical.

The legal basis of the linked class-action is the Trademark Act of 1946, and the claim is that Grubhub has infringed on the claimants' trademarks by presenting itself as acting in cooperation with the affected restaurants, even though it has actually been acting unilaterally.

So the claim is less a middle man saying "We'll deliver you food from Lou's Diner", and more putting out ads for Lou's Diner with their own phone number in and delivering from Lou's Diner

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#56

Post by chrisseaton » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 2:57 PM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #52

acoard wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I'm missing something, the substantive difference hereis that GrubHub is still ordering from the restaurant that the customer is ordering from. Your comparison of pretending to offer GrubHubHelp but then going to competitors is like if I ordered McDonalds, and you brought me pasta. I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with what GrubHub is doing, but I could see them needing to clearly note the relationship…

> I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with what GrubHub is doing, but I could see them needing to clearly note the relationship. There are lots of personal shopping/delivery services which phone in orders and go pick something up without having a pre-existing relationship with the restaurant. The problem is that Grubhub is not asking permission to list the business on their site and it borders on abusive behavio…

> The problem is that Grubhub is not asking permission

But nothing says they have to as far as I know? Do you have to ask permission from an author before you resell a book you own?

> because they simply don't to share a hefty cut with Grubhub

They don't have to share a cut in this case. The restaurant still gets the full retail price that they set. Grubhub marks up on top of that or takes it as a loss as I understand.

> Why they don't simply ask for permission?

They don't want to. Do they need any more reason than that?

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#57

Post by mumblemumble » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 2:57 PM UTC

abernard1 wrote: post #43

s_dev wrote: post #7

Trading under another brands name -- by listing them as an ordering place with an unofficial dark kitchen associated in your app -- seems like the most egregious form of trade mark infringement. Why aren't GrubHub concerned about the legal reprecussions of this?

> Why aren't GrubHub concerned about the legal reprecussions of this? Because the company is firmly in Team Blue, and they control the House right now. This is the same organization where the CEO told his employees that if they voted for Trump, they should resign.

Prosecution is handled by the executive branch, not the lower house of the legislative branch.

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#58

Post by jdmichal » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 2:57 PM UTC

buckminster wrote: post #40

jdmichal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the customers are ordering the food from Grubhub , no? So why would they be confused that there's a middle-man?

A middle man is responsible to the consumer. A subcontractor is not. Grubhub does not tell the consumer whether they are acting as a subcontractor or middle man for a particular restaurant. This is deceptive and harms the restaurants who do not subcontract Grubhub.

I can buy this, if the customer is ordering directly from the restaurant and Grubhub delivers that order. Because that's what a subcontractor relationship looks like; you the customer only deal with the primary contractor. But if I order from Grubhub, I am explicitly asking them to be a middle man, no?

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#59

Post by KittenInABox » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC

doytch wrote: post #5

What's the "best" ordering app to use these days if I want to prioritize how well they treat restaurants? I've tried looking this up recently to no avail. I know at the end of the day, "call and pick-up directly" is going to be it but occasionally I just don't want to go pick it up.

ChowBus? I also got an advertisement for Shef.

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#60

Post by TuringNYC » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 2:59 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #19

I hope there's a strong precedent set here. Companies like Grubhub list restaurants on their site/app, but put the wrong phone number on it- one that goes to their own people instead. That's clearly some kind of fraud or misrepresentation. Makes me feel like I should setup a phone number and a website called something like "GrubhubHelp.com", and list a help number for assistance with GrubHub orders. Then when custome…

FYI - the same thing happens with Hotels.com. When you "call the hotel" with the number listed, I learned that the representative is actually a Hotels.com rep, not a hotel employee or hotel call-center employee.

This matters. In my case, I asked about my corporate discount and they gave me a vague answer about "I dont see anything in the system", which I guess was technically not a lie, but definitely deceitful. I wised up because I knew we had a corporate discount and asked who I was speaking to. They gave vague answers like "I'm the call center representative" or "I'm here to help you book with X hotel".

The scam is they are trying to book you at a higher price w/o applying any corporate discounts, etc (and probably keeping a booking/affiliate fee). This should be illegal.