Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#51

Post by gravlaks » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:06 AM UTC

jokethrowaway wrote: post #47

op03 wrote: post #40

If you ever teach a group of kids you quickly learn that interests, personality types, needs come in a wide spectrum. Whats in the "core curriculum" and its effects are not predictable. For example, I had French classes for 4 years and can't speak, read or write it to save my life. The teacher wasn't bad and kept telling me, who knows maybe one day I'd move to France. As a kid, I thought the whole thing was ridiculou…

I was forced to study Latin for 5 years - and that was in a Computer Science oriented high school. Nobody yet sent me back in time.

Oh my god, which country is this?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#52

Post by AniseAbyss » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:07 AM UTC

I grew up in a family that had money problems.

That was the best education for me and my brother: we pay our bills on time, have no debt and no creditcard. The best schooling is life.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#53

Post by lvturner » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:08 AM UTC

aliassmith wrote: post #43

Every recommendation to add "x" to a school curriculum should state explicitly what alternative activity should be cut to free up time. This could be another subject, sleep or childrens' free time. For example, a better question would be "Why don't we eliminate and teach finance instead?"

In the UK we had 'personal social development' classes during high school.

We could have at least spent some of that time learning about finance.

I'm also pretty sure a lot of my courses, could have been truncated to allow extra time for another class - I don't see why it has to be so binary.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#54

Post by silverpepsi » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:10 AM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #3

tcbasche wrote: post #2

I would argue that most people in life will never even go near the stock market let alone be expected to learn all those different bits and pieces. How would that help the average high school graduate?

More importantly, where are we going to find the time in an eight hour day to teach more things? What is going to get tossed to the wayside? People have already complained that arts, music, civics, home ec, and trade classes were tossed to the wayside for APs and STEM. What else is left to toss?

That's the eternal problem when you start with the status quo - a zero sum give and take - a battle betwixt pressure groups

There should be a top down revision of the curriculum every decade - you start by defining the final result - after 12 years of compulsory education what does every citizen and illegal need to know and to what exact degree? What is the minimum number of hours of instruction that can be used to achieve this? Then you realize you need 20 years of education to get to the desired final state. So you have to start thinking creatively: can these two topics be taught in the same lesson by integrating the knowledge into a larger coherent approach? Can the same math lesson that teaches percentages also advance a basic understanding of credit card interest? YES IT CAN.

Teachers, some of them, the ones that use the same lesson from their 1st year teaching 20 years on, are stuck in their ways and have unions to protect their inertia. The only way you can shake it up is to throw them out of their comfort zone by making top to bottom changes at intervals - sorry miss math teacher, you're not going to be able to use that goddamn lesson plan again this year - that's not how we roll in 2021.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#55

Post by jokethrowaway » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:10 AM UTC

Instead of adding more to the curriculum I think we should remove everything and let people learn what they're interested in.

People are illiterate on important topics (finance is a great example, politics another one) because they've been spoonfed everything they need in the short term, not realising how little they're actually learning in school.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#56

Post by jokethrowaway » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:11 AM UTC

gravlaks wrote: post #51

jokethrowaway wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was forced to study Latin for 5 years - and that was in a Computer Science oriented high school. Nobody yet sent me back in time.

Oh my god, which country is this?

Italy, stay away if you have kids :)

And the curriculum in my high school is still the same.

3hrs of Latin out of 27hrs per week for 3 years.

3hrs of Latin out of 30hrs per week for 2 years.

More than 10% of my high school was Latin.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#57

Post by hermitcrab » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:14 AM UTC

In my ~15 year education in the UK I don't think I ever learned a single thing about how the UK government or the EU works. And I am sure I am not unique in this. I had to pick all that up from TV, articles etc. This might go some way to explaining the total political mess the UK is in now.

Sure it is interesting to learn about the Romans and the Vikings. But we could easily cut out 50% of that and replace it with learning about how the government works. Or maybe the people designing the curriculum would rather keep us in the dark?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#58

Post by cateye » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:17 AM UTC

Schools are mainly about supplying cheap workforce for existing companies.

Learning things like starting your own company or managing money in a way that increases negotiation power of the workers, is a disadvantage for companies.

Having financial knowledge is also not always a direct requirement to get the job at a company, so actually it doesn't provide a direct competitive advantage if you are in the job seeker pool.

These 2 factors create maybe the equilibrium of the current composition of the curriculum.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#59

Post by jay_kyburz » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:18 AM UTC

natmaka wrote: post #31

indigochill wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what you mean by there not being enough time. Kids today spend more time in dedicated schooling (as opposed to apprenticeships or whatever) than kids of yesteryear and although the information density of everyday life has increased substantially, it's not like basic arithmetic has become more complex in the last couple thousand years.

I don't think those fundamentals were better taught to kids in the past, nor did I state it. In my opinion kids were and are taught way too many ancillary or even dubious (sheer propaganda) stuff, and not enough fundamentals (arithmetic being one, critical thinking another, logic, collaborative work...).

I think kids might go too deep on some subjects in late high school. My kids are only in primary school now, but I have been looking ahead at year 10 text books and wow, there really is a lot of stuff in there you would only need once you start specializing in a particular field.

I wonder if at some point we need to pivot to teaching that the knowledge is out there, and when you might need it, rather than exactly how to do "complex thing x".

You could take your internet connected computer into an exam, be given some problem that is unique to your test, and you research, learn, and calculate the solution on the fly. That's kind of what I do all day at work.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#60

Post by Broken_Hippo » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:19 AM UTC

silverpepsi wrote: post #39

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #29

We got taught about basic finance. It was poor: The teacher had a friend from a care dealership come in to teach us some things. I was 13. But more importantly: What a wide swath of folks need is how to survive poverty. So many people never get to the point of even considering a CD or IRA. Most folks only really need the bank account for paying things. 401(k) simply because that's what is offered by the employer, and…

I think you're really, really on to something, but just simply that calling it "surviving poverty" will give most people the wrong impression. You've got to convince people that by spending every windfall (and by windfall I literally mean like 20 to 50 extra dollars) to "make up" for the resentment they felt when they couldn't pay their rent on time and got Eviction Notice #1... they've got to SAVE IT or the entire r…

There is no windfall in poverty. In general, folks with money are able to have things like comfortable shoes, entertainment, and not worry about their electricity being turned off if they have a flat tire.

Every "windfall" takes care of a need, makes you more secure with things like food and shelter, or gives you some mental relief by providing a few moments of entertainment. There is no saving for those other things if you have been walking to work because you can't afford to fix the flat tire or if you've been in pain due to poor shoes.

There is no advice on how to afford things if you only have $5 extra at the end of the month and definitely no advice on how to afford life if you simply don't earn enough. "Saving a windfall" is pointless if you have a hospital bill that is threatening to sue and deduct the money from your paycheck.

I am not sure you really understand poverty.