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Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

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Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#51

Post by dkonofalski »

malandrew wrote: post #10

This is a big breach of trust in terms of Apple always being on the side of user privacy. If someone knows enough to install these firewall apps, then they know enough to figure out what they want to enable/disable even for Apple applications. If Apple thinks certain rules cause issues, they certainly could work with the developer of these apps to educate users of adverse effects when certain things cause unintended…

>If someone knows enough to install these firewall apps

Your statement implies that it's difficult to install these apps. Installing Little Snitch is no different than installing any other macOS app. Also, this isn't specifically against Little Snitch, it's about any app that could potentially compromise a user's network traffic. Little Snitch is obviously a desired use of these features but how do you then differentiate it from the undesired uses?

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#52

Post by api »

Skunkleton wrote: post #44
api wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech savvy users are not just the minority. They're also cheap. They've been conditioned by the FOSS movement to think all software should be free as-in-beer. (The people who started FOSS didn't say that, but that's what it's become.) They say they want free as-in-freedom, but since they are not willing to pay for it they don't exist. Those who pay set the agenda for everything. Developing a truly polished operating…

> They say they want free as-in-freedom, but since they are not willing to pay for it they don't exist. Only paying users matter. Citation needed. If you look at app store pricing models the opposite seems true. If I were going to take a random guess I would say that tech savvy users use open source software to avoid anti-consumer bullshit more than anything else.

If enough people said to Apple "hey, this stuff is not acceptable and we won't pay for it" and then they actually did follow through, Apple would stop.

My point is that the vast majority of people don't say that, only a very tiny minority. The vast majority of people want convenience, not control. They want their stuff to "just work" because even if they do have the technical knowledge they don't have the time to screw around with fixing their computer. Apple is giving the market what they want as evidenced by actual buying behavior, not posts on HN.

My other point is that while there probably are enough tech-savvy people who care about freedom to support a viable alternative platform, the majority of these users are not willing to pay for anything so there is not in fact a market for it.

Basically what it boils down to is that people don't actually care. Even the vocal people who say they care don't care because they won't open their wallets or change their buying habits. If you won't actually do anything about something, you don't care. Whining on the Internet is not doing something.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#53

Post by AlexandrB »

Both major consumer OS vendors seem hell-bent on bringing the OS layer under their complete control. As a power user, it's very frustrating. Meanwhile "desktop" Linux still kind of sucks, just like it did 10 years ago. I don't have much hope of seeing a compelling, unified UX out of Linux in my lifetime.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#54

Post by munificent »

nix23 wrote: post #28
jjoonathan wrote: post #5

"You don't need kernel extensions, we'll provide APIs for you! We won't abuse the power that gives us, promise!" ...and now Apple has altered the deal and we must pray they do not alter it further. Disgusting. Predictable, expected, unsurprising -- but still disgusting.

Dont pray, just dont buy Apple Products

Boycotting is not an effective strategy for addressing oligopolies. You need actual strong anti-trust regulation.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#55

Post by blacksmith_tb »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #34
paranorman wrote: post #2

That’s annoying yet pretty predictable, at least we’ve still got https://pi-hole.net/ as an option until DNS encryption becomes widespread :/

Not a pi-hole user, but what is the plan for pi-hole once encrypted dns is everywhere? Will it just be dead? I can’t really think of a way for it not to be.

Couldn't you host pi-hole on a cheap VM and set it to be your DNS-over-TLS / DNS-over-HTTPS endpoint?

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#56

Post by dheera »

pier25 wrote: post #22

A bit contradictory with Apple's supposedly privacy-focused approach, no?

Was Apple every privacy focused? I think they mostly try to play the good guys to get on users' sides but actually are pretty much the opposite. They know everything about you.

Why was the FBI even able to get access to that person's phone? Sounds like there was a loophole. Not happening if it were an encrypted Android device with a high-entropy password.

Apple also has vastly different policies in different countries. They do cooperate with government privacy invasions but they don't publish that fact in the US. It's a business decision but they are most definitely profit-focused, not privacy-focused.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#58

Post by solatic »

gogopuppygogo wrote: post #49
nix23 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont pray, just dont buy Apple Products

The alternative is what? System76 makes a decent laptop but they don’t have a repair center in every major city. I buy Apple computers because of the hardware support and integration with iPhone. Speaking of iPhone, the open options are at best abysmal for privacy (at least orders of magnitudes worse than Apple) and at worst part of planned obsolescence that creates e-waste much faster than Apple devices. Fun fact, a…

You respond as if the majority of buyers do not already have alternatives for Apple laptops and Apple phones.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#59

Post by Wowfunhappy »

Skunkleton wrote: post #27
jjoonathan wrote: post #5

"You don't need kernel extensions, we'll provide APIs for you! We won't abuse the power that gives us, promise!" ...and now Apple has altered the deal and we must pray they do not alter it further. Disgusting. Predictable, expected, unsurprising -- but still disgusting.

You understand that Apple could bypass kexts too? This is an issue of trust, not a technical issue.

It's worth noting the Apple does release the source code to XNU (albeit on a ~6 month delay), and unlike some of their other source releases, there's actually enough tooling for you to build your own kernel. So while there are still gaps, it is overall more open to review.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#60

Post by dylan604 »

dmd wrote: post #45
thewebcount wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow! This probably explains why every now and then when I wake my MacBook Pro from sleep it says no keyboard is connected! I thought I had some hardware problem on a basically brand new machine. Glad to hear it's only a stupid software problem!

If you're using Cisco Anyconnect, blame that for that particular keyboard issue.

Why not blame the idiotic decision to make this network check just to wake up?
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