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Mission Protocol

missionprotocol.org

51–60 of 81 posts

Re: Mission Protocol

#51
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Good is purely subjective. This is a substantial claim, and requires substantial evidence. Claiming that the Good (meaning the metaethical object) is objective is also a substantial claim, but observe that it's not necessary to be a moral realist to think that things can be, for all practical purposes, bad : in an intersubjective sense, a thing is bad if everybody around you agrees that it's bad. They can all be wr…

To say good isn't subjective is to say there is some part of the universe at some fundamental level that defines good. That's the claim that requires evidence. Show me the "good particle" and then we'll talk. Until then I can only rationally assume something doesn't exist until proven otherwise.

Metaethics has been in discourse on this for some time. I think most the prevalent systems do reduce down to a small set of axioms (foundationalist propose a strong form of this), or a least a set of internal consistent, self-reinforcing propositions (coherentism, which doesn't necessary presume a prepositional hierarchy).

Some of the more interesting (to me) arguments of the realists/naturalists (the justification question rather than the ontological question above), consider there to be emergent properties from the nature of interaction between agents. Basically game-theory. Presume we all were psychopaths, but intelligent self-maximizing agents and not the irrational kind. What behaviors would maximize achieving our ends? What behaviors would we need to hold others accountable to support our ends? You can take this thought experiment pretty far to get an "emergent" moral system with first-order properties similar to those we see in real societies. I find this insufficient though, you still need some base value system. Even the psychopath example presumes a set of ends for individuals like "continued survival" and so boils down to something like a form "utilitarianism."

Re: Mission Protocol

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect this is an anti-fragile position, i.e. exposed to varying stressors on a company's purpose, companies that follow this principle will simply sharpen their purpose and objectives and get better at it. We might be inclined to ask ourselves what it would have looked like for lunch counters in 1958 to have done the same, and why that doesn't fly now.

Why would you work for a lunch counter with a racist mission? Boycotting is the correct way to combat it. If there's a law forcing lunch counters to segregate, then the problem is in the government, and the correct way to counter that is political activism.

The observation is that (1) people are willing to excuse environmental racism as long as they don't feel personally responsible for it, and (2) the environment of business is optimized for ensuring that individual employees do not feel guilty for their small roles in larger wrongs.

It's hard to blame someone who's just trying to get by for taking a job, and I'm not especially interested in levying blame. What I'm more interested in is ensuring that people feel able to lodge their complaints about injustices.

Re: Mission Protocol

#54

How about just being honest and saying that the main purpose of the company is to make a profit and let's cut the shit with the superficial social and political stances. It would be great if companies could work towards something greater but the incentives are not aligned with how the system is currently built.

Because if someone asks me whether I'm picking up anything on the radio telescope and I say "yeah, the cosmic microwave background", then I'm a complete and utter idiot (or a pretty funny guy).

The interesting thing about a company is its path to making money, not that its objective is making money. Everyone knows it's for making money.

Re: Mission Protocol

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect this is an anti-fragile position, i.e. exposed to varying stressors on a company's purpose, companies that follow this principle will simply sharpen their purpose and objectives and get better at it. We might be inclined to ask ourselves what it would have looked like for lunch counters in 1958 to have done the same, and why that doesn't fly now.

I suspect these lunch counters would've had some very pointed questions about why the law was artificially constraining their potential customer base.

It shows the subjectivity and flexibility one has when choosing a mission and framing though. The mission could be "serve the best lunch lunch we can to good 'old souther white people" or more insidiously, to "... to real Americans." People have a amazing ability to self-rationalize and are going to do what they want to do.

Setting boundaries on an organization's objectives is certainly a worthwhile thing to do, because coordination is hard and any alignment helps, but it is just going to reflect to consensus of the leadership regardless.

Re: Mission Protocol

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you work for a lunch counter with a racist mission? Boycotting is the correct way to combat it. If there's a law forcing lunch counters to segregate, then the problem is in the government, and the correct way to counter that is political activism.

The observation is that (1) people are willing to excuse environmental racism as long as they don't feel personally responsible for it, and (2) the environment of business is optimized for ensuring that individual employees do not feel guilty for their small roles in larger wrongs. It's hard to blame someone who's just trying to get by for taking a job, and I'm not especially interested in levying blame. What I'm mor…

I don't follow. Can you explain why choosing to not work for or dine at a racist lunch counter, instead of work there and then complain to management about their racism, is ignoring the problem?

People should be political about which missions they support. What I think is wrong is accepting a position at a company knowing what their mission is, and then using one's position at the company to push for a different mission while castigating others in the company for not doing the same. If media reports are correct, this is what happened at Coinbase, as a handful of employees refused to work unless their CEO made a political statement about the issue of alleged systemic racial injustice against black Americans.

As for lodging their complaints about injustice - that's vague. Injustice in the workplace? Nothing in the protocol discourages that. Or injustice in the wider world? The complaints should be lodged with the relevant parties, outside of the workplace.

Re: Mission Protocol

#57
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This protocol is meant for non-government agencies, i.e. tech companies. Don't obfuscate the intended purpose of this protocol. There are well-defined, existing whistleblower protocols in government for situations that Snowden encountered.

Did you mean to also exclude tech companies that work with the government (i.e. Palantir, Amazon, Microsoft, etc.)? > Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Corporation (informally Booz Allen) is the parent of Booz Allen Hamilton Inc., an American management and information technology consulting firm, headquartered in McLean, Virginia, in Greater Washington, D.C. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booz_Allen_Hamilton

Gee, thanks for explaining what government contracting is.

I wasn't aware. /s

Contractors are also protected under existing whistleblower laws. There are clearly codified protocols for reporting and handling instances of governmental abuse. Any contractor that is dealing with sensitive information is working with either a Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret clearance. These projects and clearances are something you are specifically hired for, or voluntarily agree to participate in.

https://www.cncsoig.gov/contractor-whistleblower-protection-...

Again, stop obfuscating.

You're grasping at straws.

Re: Mission Protocol

#58
post #32

> Mission focus is the operational principle that your project’s social responsibility is the effective and focused execution of its mission. ... This brings to mind what Snowden revealed to the world. Few inside the CIA new about domestic warrantless surveillance. Had Snowden followed the "Mission Protocol," we might still not be aware of the laws being broken routinely in the name of security. Following the Mission…

The way I read it, I don't think the Mission Protocol is about accomplishing the mission at all costs, even if it means sacrificing our morals or doing anything illegal.

It's very difficult to create meaningful and impactful change to improve society, and this advocates being laser-focused to give your mission the best chance be successful. If all (good) missions are given their full attention, they all have a higher chance of success instead of everyone trying to trying to do everything, and then not doing any mission well enough to be successful.

It is advocating for people to choose a company with a mission they believe in because they think it can make a positive contribution to society. For example, if you care about having a world-wide open financial system but take a job at Tesla, according to the Mission Protocol you would be doing a disservice to bringing clean energy to the world if you also asked Tesla to put effort into contributing to an open financial system.

Re: Mission Protocol

#59
post #32

> Mission focus is the operational principle that your project’s social responsibility is the effective and focused execution of its mission. ... This brings to mind what Snowden revealed to the world. Few inside the CIA new about domestic warrantless surveillance. Had Snowden followed the "Mission Protocol," we might still not be aware of the laws being broken routinely in the name of security. Following the Mission…

Really cheapening Snowden here if you think he wasn't going to sacrifice his life to reveal these practices if a little mission protocol document had been there.
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