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Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

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Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#51

Post by thrownaway954 »

tlackemann wrote: post #43
0x008 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think inclusive language is an attempt to shame people, then YOU might have to look deep at yourself. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the point of inclusive language is so that people who identify as female or non-binary have less reason to be offended, and can generally feel more safe in an environment because less trigger words are used. edit: I would also appreciate that the people downvoting me would…

I agree with you whole-heartedly. I tend to find those who feel the need to "fight against this" are the ones who are not on the receiving end. Sure, there are plenty of radicalized people who take this as an opportunity to shame, but I do not see the harm or difficulty in changing "guys" to "folks" or "team" if it makes someone feel more inclusive. I've hired and work with a number of trans and marginalized people,…

"I tend to find those who feel the need to "fight against this" are the ones who are not on the receiving end."

i'm constantly mistaken for a white male. i'm on the receiving end more often than you think.

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#52

Post by dang »

Kednicma wrote: post #25
tomquirk wrote: post #4

Hey everyone, OP here. I know this can be a somewhat controversial topic, so I'm keen to hear your perspectives on inclusive language and inclusion in general. Thanks for stumbling upon my post :)

"guy" comes from the ancient Roman names "Gaius" and "Gaia". Note carefully how the one name had two gendered forms since ancient Latin is gendered. As a Lojban speaker, it is incredibly tiring to listen to English-only speakers whine about how gendered their language is. You want everybody to change how they talk, but still talk English; what a half-measure! There is no such thing as a good person. Your misandry bli…

This comment breaks the site guidelines badly. Ideological flamebait, name-calling, and (especially) personal attacks will get you banned here. We've had to warn you before. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting, which means editing out any swipes that make it into your comments?

On the other hand, I just looked at your recent comment history and am pleased to see a lot of mostly substantive comments there. Thank you for that. If you'd just be careful to take out the swipes (as in the last paragraph of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24813852), the problem would be solved. We'd appreciate that.

p.s. Your etymological claim is incorrect according to Etymonline: https://www.etymonline.com/word/guy#etymonline_v_14401

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#53

Post by mcphage »

I've got mixed feelings about this one. On one hand, I'm definitely fine with seeking to reduce uncomfortable terms in my speech. On the other, looking at how "guys" is used, it seems clear that it's in the process of becoming de-gendered. It isn't entirely, yet, but it's almost completely there. And in general, stepping into the path of language change seems a fool's errand; it's going to happen whether we want it to or not. So trying to force "guys" to stay gendered when it's in the process of changing seems like an exercise in futility. Similar to those people who reject "singular they" or "literally meaning figuratively". Those changes happened hundreds of years ago, yet there are still people trying to fight those fights. "de-gendered guys" at least is still in progress, so I'll give it that—but I'm pretty sure that the outcome is not in doubt.

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#54

Post by bbg215 »

I used to have a bad habit of saying "thanks man" and "hey guys" regardless of who I was talking to. In all cases it was more due to laziness and habit than anything else and I was somewhat unaware of it.

It wasn't hard to change, with the main benefit being I no longer came off like a complete dumbass to a room full of women or a trans person.

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#55

Post by Kednicma »

dang wrote: post #52
Kednicma wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"guy" comes from the ancient Roman names "Gaius" and "Gaia". Note carefully how the one name had two gendered forms since ancient Latin is gendered. As a Lojban speaker, it is incredibly tiring to listen to English-only speakers whine about how gendered their language is. You want everybody to change how they talk, but still talk English; what a half-measure! There is no such thing as a good person. Your misandry bli…

This comment breaks the site guidelines badly. Ideological flamebait, name-calling, and (especially) personal attacks will get you banned here. We've had to warn you before. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting, which means editing out any swipes that make it into your comments? On the other hand, I just looked at your recent comment history and…

You are slightly improving as a person. I did not expect that. To respect your personal growth, I'll retire this account.

In the case example that you linked, I find it disappointing that you still do not read entire threads. The original article is a Wikipedia article with many authors. The original comment, which critiques either Wikipedia or Baumol & Bowen's original study, includes the summary:

> So - this is simply a bad, ignorant example. It's not just wrong, it's flagrantly, wildly, outrageously misinformed, and is based on an almost total lack of insight into an industry that is worth $146 million a year - of which around $90 million is income from streaming.

My comment concludes with the line:

> This is a bad, ignorant example. Not just wrong, but flagrantly, wildly, outrageously misinformed.

I understand that you object to when we (those who know of the Prime Directive) hold a mirror up to HN. It is embarrassing to imagine how other people must see us, knowing how we see other people. However, that does not mean that we should stop looking at ourselves in the mirror.

Oh, and finally, have a happy Halloween.

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#57

Post by dzhiurgis »

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #32
insickness wrote: post #30

I have no problem calling someone by their preferred gender term and including gender-neutral language. The problem I have is that there is an ever-growing, constantly-changing secret set of rules created, not as much to make people feel better, but in order to purposefully shame those who's viewpoints differ from the current political viewpoint that all human interaction is steeped in racism/sexism/bigotry. The day…

Honestly I think it's an arcane set of rules that's meant to cement and elevate the position of the managerial/upper-class and ignore "the barbarians". As much as the left claims to love the working class, all this cancellation stuff and hyper-sensitivity effectively disowns and demonizes the entire working class (idk, at least in my experience doing blue collar stuff, pretty much everyone I know in the city now woul…

So would a worker sitting in a "sprint retro"

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#58

Post by JacobSuperslav »

hackeraccount wrote: post #45
0x008 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While dictionaries are guidelines as to what is accepted use of a language, these accepted uses and dictionaries are no laws. A dictionary is only a snapshot of the rules which society agreed upon in the past and thus will certainly be changed in future.

So we're deciding right now that "guys" is a group of men? Why are we deciding to have the least inclusive possible meaning?

Because I don't know about you, the word guy sounds masculine to me.

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#59

Post by RhysU »

anotherevan wrote: post #56

Thanks all y’all for y’all. I’m taking y’all. I love y’all. Because “y’all” is the best, most inclusive second-person, plural pronoun in the English-speaking world. Thank you, the South. What an ally. — Hannah Gadsby, Douglas

Except y'all can be dismissive or insulting depending upon context. Let's go y'all (idiots)!
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