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The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

economist.com

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Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#51

Post by colechristensen »

goku99 wrote: post #12

I don't understand what's the point of UN when these things are happening in a permanent UNSC member country. This C has been causing nuisance to their neighbors all the time. They Debt-Trap poor nations and exploit them. From Mongols to India, every neighbor has a problem, they are probably most worst neighbor you could get. Recently it was in news with yet another conflict with India[1]. This needs to stop. Entire…

What would you have the UN do? (actual question)

When small states misbehave its a clubhouse for correcting them with military force, but what works for small states doesn’t for world powers.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#52

Post by wombatmobile »

zdragnar wrote: post #24
goku99 wrote: post #12

I don't understand what's the point of UN when these things are happening in a permanent UNSC member country. This C has been causing nuisance to their neighbors all the time. They Debt-Trap poor nations and exploit them. From Mongols to India, every neighbor has a problem, they are probably most worst neighbor you could get. Recently it was in news with yet another conflict with India[1]. This needs to stop. Entire…

Didn't China just get on to the human rights committee too? Edit: yes, the human rights council, joined by Russia and Cuba. What a time to be alive.

Now is nothing special. Australia commenced a two-year term as a non-permanent member of the UN Security Council on On 1 January 2013.

Australia–East Timor spying scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-East_Timor_spying_sc...

Then on 16 October 2017, in New York, the United Nations General Assembly elected Australia to serve on the Human Rights Council (HRC) for the 2018-20 term.

Witness K and the 'outrageous' spy scandal that failed to shame Australia

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/10/witne...

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#53

Post by PeterisP »

goku99 wrote: post #12

I don't understand what's the point of UN when these things are happening in a permanent UNSC member country. This C has been causing nuisance to their neighbors all the time. They Debt-Trap poor nations and exploit them. From Mongols to India, every neighbor has a problem, they are probably most worst neighbor you could get. Recently it was in news with yet another conflict with India[1]. This needs to stop. Entire…

The point of UN and UNSC is as a venue to talk about these things and negotiate solutions - it's not like it ever was an option to have an UN that can make binding decisions on the major powers, no major sovereign power would ever agree to that.

The default position is that a sovereign nation can do as it pleases; if other nations does not like it, they are welcome to try and force it to change with military power - but having nuclear deterrent significantly limits such options.

Since you need essentially voluntary compliance, it makes all sense that any "misbehaving" major nations have a seat on the councils (such as the Human Rights Council), since any decision made without involving them would be just completely worthless empty words.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#55

Post by rubidium »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #45

A utilitarian perspective judges morality based on total improvements in human wellbeing. From that perspective, is it appropriate to say that the Chinese government is the best government of all time? The sheer numbers of people who are improving is somewhat mind boggling. Yet, they make moral tradeoffs. We all make moral tradeoffs. I think it is important to keep their moral tradeoffs in context, lest we risk hypoc…

Human freedom and rights are more central to well being than material prosperity.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#56

Post by colechristensen »

Miner49er wrote: post #42
zpeti wrote: post #18

“Here's my strategy on the Cold War: we win, they lose.” ― Ronald Reagan I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that this strategy has to be adopted with China as well. They are out to win, to dominate the world, and they won't back down, and they will use any method to do it. And ask yourself if the world you see inside China is what you want spreading.

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

Yes, the US is significantly better even if far from innocent.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#57

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

newbie578 wrote: post #33

The future looks scary if China is going to lead the world. Our best bet is to share wealth and innovation to all the other countries to try and reduce economic power of a single country. Having India, Pakistan, Thailand, Taiwan, Korea and Japan grow enough to create a sort of "buffer zone" around China.

i think the Chinese model is more influential than you might want to admit; for example universal surveillance of private communication and some kind of profiling based on big data is now the practice in many places.

I am afraid that a movement towards more control by the central state will be an important current in the period after the Corona epidemic (the states had to take measures to stem the epidemic and once a state bureaucracy got new powers it will be very reluctant to let go of its power); We might see even more points of convergence in the future.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#58

Post by Flankk »

causality0 wrote: post #3

It stands to reason that had Nazi Germany not attacked its neighbors, the rest of the world would have happily stood by and watched them execute their own Jewish/undesirables population with nothing more than some strongly-worded letters and trade sanctions.

The public knew of work camps but did not know the conditions. It's my understanding the Nazis later turned some of the camps into death camps and attempted to keep that a secret. I believe the war was already underway by then. The world was a very different place as well. Segregation and eugenics were accepted practice back then.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#59

Post by ianleeclark »

zpeti wrote: post #48
ianleeclark wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be acknowledged that this strategy ultimately ended up with the Taliban and our 20+ year occupation of Afghanistan and various massacres throughout central america. > The presidency of Ronald Reagan in the United States was marked by multiple scandals, resulting in the investigation, indictment, or conviction of over 138 administration officials Which was (still is?) The most for any president.

And the freeing of half of Europe from tyranny. The reduction in threat of nuclear annihilation of the world. The opening up of huge amounts of the world to free trade and prosperity.

I'm not really interested in defending one regime or another, but let's try not to have death squads raping nuns this time.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#60

Post by Synaesthesia »

LatteLazy wrote: post #54

I'm no fan of the US, but too many people here are basically saying "the US does bad stuff too". You're not wrong, your point just irrelevant. 2 things can be bad without either excusing the other...

Yes but we must be equally outraged about it. Especially since Americans have more power to change the actions of their own government.
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