Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up • Hacker News Board

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#51

Post by m463 » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

jhbadger wrote: post #20

searchableguy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few people probably abuse the system too much. There are scamming forums and services for Amazon refunds. Scammers take 10-20% of the item cost for refunding it without giving the original. A trend I observed here among college students is buying clothes for a party or instagram selfie and then returning it. Small sellers get screwed pretty hard. You should check their forums.

Back in the days of brick-and-mortar shopping there used to be people who bought a large screen TV shortly before a big sports game and then returned it afterwards. A lot of stores revised their return policies because of this.

I remember hearing from someone that in some parts of florida, the retirees would come down for the winter and just before returning to go back north, flock to the store and return a bunch of stuff.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#52

Post by quantified » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

henvic wrote: post #40

Am I the only one worried about: * The privacy of consumers who might eventually buy some of the stuff stuffed with their trackers. * The scene at 1:49 where it appears they put a tracker in a plastic bag inside something like a coffee kettle. * Sticking a tracker to a kid's toy. What the hell is wrong with these people? I get they wanted to do a great investigation, but this seems so wrong to me...

That’s an interesting ethics angle. Certainly a potential issue, but not likely to be an actual problem. They’d know where the item ended up, but not much about who it ended up with. Kid’s toys go to adults first on average. Knowing I bought a backpack on Amazon doesn’t say much, a little weird, but far better than a phone’s location tracking.

If the items were sensitive in some way (bondage equipment, say, or doctored home security equipment) then certainly.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#53

Post by winkeltripel » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

decko wrote: post #21

> Fulfillment by Amazon Donations, which Amazon says will help sellers send returns directly to charities instead of disposing of them. So the seller ends up having to take the loss?

But they at least get a tax write off for a percentage of the value of the donation.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#54

Post by kennywinker » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

henvic wrote: post #40

Am I the only one worried about: * The privacy of consumers who might eventually buy some of the stuff stuffed with their trackers. * The scene at 1:49 where it appears they put a tracker in a plastic bag inside something like a coffee kettle. * Sticking a tracker to a kid's toy. What the hell is wrong with these people? I get they wanted to do a great investigation, but this seems so wrong to me...

> The privacy of consumers who might eventually buy some of the stuff stuffed with their trackers.

I don't share your concern here. CBC is a reputable org. They can just turn off the trackers if the items appear to be getting re-sold to an end-consumer. Even then, I don't think it would be a privacy violation for a journalist to go and talk to them and say "hey did you know this was a returned item?" etc.

If the kids toy made it into the hands of a kid without that tracker being noticed, I'd have deeper concerns. I.e. what's stopping someone from putting razorblades or some toxic checmical in a kids toy and returning it? Someone needs to check over returned items for basic quality, and should DEFINITELY notice the massive tracker.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#55

Post by rantwasp » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

tomarr wrote: post #8

The GPS tracker technique does not seem foolproof, basic QA on returned goods would likely be trashing the GPS trackers.

yeah. what people don’t understand is that the return has to be processed when it comes back. in an ideal world anything like a GPS tracker would surely be discovered.

there are also several issue with how the return may go. amazon may tell you to just keep the item (if the cost of shipping + processing the return is higher that the actual product price / margin on the item). they may decide that the item is in not good condition when it comes back. the packaging may be missing parts or damaged. i would guess that a lot of items don’t make it through the process.

also i would guess that because Amazon keeps existing and making a profit they have this baked into their business model. Also I would be shocked if the return rate is 30-40%. Again guessing, I would say it’s probably 1-2%. A lot of people buy shit they don’t need and keep it.

As far as “hacking the system” I think that they should have a system in place to track how many things you return (and if they were in good condition/could be resold) and how much money they made on your purchases. If overall you’re a net negative I would not be surprised if your account got suspended/banned. Why would they do business with you if you’re a bad actor?

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#56

Post by x87678r » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

x87678r wrote: post #23

sokoloff wrote: post #3

> 30 to 40 per cent of all online purchases are sent back That seems almost an order of magnitude higher than I’d expect. Setting aside kids shoes (which probably do get 50% returned), I can’t imagine sending back even 5% of my online purchases, let alone 30-40%. I think I’ve sent back exactly 1 Amazon order in the last year, out of nearly 100.

I have friends who send back nearly everything. Not sure about shoe size? Order 3 sizes, keep the one you like and send back the other two (or return all 3 if you dont like it). Want a shirt? Order 5 and keep the ones you like, if any.

I have to add its almost like this for other stuff. Its harder to showroom stuff and buy online now you need to order and return to try out. It isn't just clothes: laptops, furniture, nearly everything is likely to end up like this.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#57

Post by lotu » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

whoisjuan wrote: post #47

kennywinker wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apparently destroying and dumping it’s the easiest and less resource consuming way to deal with returns. Not the least resource consuming - the least costly to amazon . There is a massive environmental cost to the practice - it's just externalized. If the companies involved (amazon, the manufacturer) had to bare the full environmental cost, the calculation would often come out different.

Totally! That’s what I was going for. Least resource consuming but I’m talking about economic resources. Like man hours, packaging, transportation, etc. The environmental impact is big! I hope this is being considered in their Climate Pledge.

If the environmental cost is dominated by shipping I could see destruction as more environmentally friendly. This is likely the for many small cheap items.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#58

Post by marvindanig » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

Now compare these lies of recycling goods and plastic with the other lie of harvesting trees for paper pulp. ;-)

It's a perfect animal farm!

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#59

Post by cbanek » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

I feel the worst about mattresses getting returned. I'm tempted to buy a new bed (it's just that time), but not being able to try them out, I'd feel bad returning one if I didn't like it. Those things are huge and hard to recycle, and you can't exactly resell them.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#60

Post by 627467 » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

x87678r wrote: post #23

sokoloff wrote: post #3

> 30 to 40 per cent of all online purchases are sent back That seems almost an order of magnitude higher than I’d expect. Setting aside kids shoes (which probably do get 50% returned), I can’t imagine sending back even 5% of my online purchases, let alone 30-40%. I think I’ve sent back exactly 1 Amazon order in the last year, out of nearly 100.

I have friends who send back nearly everything. Not sure about shoe size? Order 3 sizes, keep the one you like and send back the other two (or return all 3 if you dont like it). Want a shirt? Order 5 and keep the ones you like, if any.

Sounds wasteful but if we assume normalization of online ordering for clothing (where good fit is important) then this is probably the most efficient way to handle this situation. I suppose ordering a single item, trying, returning then ordering 2 more times until you get the right fit: that sounds a lot more wasteful than order 3 items in one go and doing a single return.

Now, IMO, ordering clothes (and shoes, or anything you're supposed to wear and where fit is important - at least important for a substantial demographic) through online shopping just doesn't seem to make as much sense as other things.

I personally rarely buy online unless I'm talking about staples like shirt and tees that I've tried from certain brands and know how it fits (so don't need returning).

As with other things... this huge shift to online ordering may make from efficiency perspective only when you ignore externalities and subsidies.