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The strange new world of being a deepfake actor

technologyreview.com

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Re: The strange new world of being a deepfake actor

#51

Post by ghaff »

carapace wrote: post #41
ShamelessC wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that this has been widespread on social media but do you know of any examples where reputable media outlets were fooled by a Photoshop? Not saying I don't believe you but I watch plenty of news and haven't personally seen much of this.

National Geographic moved the Pyramids for a cover photo in '82. https://www.alteredimagesbdc.org/national-geographic/ Granted that's a case of a reputable media outlet fooling their readers by Photoshop, but it's arguably part of the problem.

That's a somewhat different case though. That gets into what degree of image manipulation for aesthetic purposes is acceptable for a given use. Because any photograph reflects decisions about composition, lens, film (at the time)/color temperature/B&W vs. color, and so forth. And what you might choose to do with a vacation picture (or, for that matter, a fine art poster) isn't necessarily acceptable for many publications .

You also have the photo illustration that Time did of OJ Simpson which was about photo manipulation to fit with a narrative tone. Of course, photo selection could have the same effect.

Re: The strange new world of being a deepfake actor

#52

Post by anm89 »

> This is how Lewis D. Wheeler, a Boston-based white male actor

The fact that this framing is so normalized to just be thrown out in a mostly technical article with no other explanation is insidious and insane. There's video of the guy right above. It's very clear what his skin color and gender are. And it's totally off topic.

At a minimum if you are going to do this, it should be done for every single person mentioned consistently. Why don't we get Nixon's gender and race or Francesca Panetta and Halsey Burgund genders and races? And of course when you have the choice between doing this consistently for everyone or not for anyone it becomes clear that it would be way over the top if done consistently and in reality is inappropriate in all cases.

It gets into Noam Chomsky's manufacturing consent arguments in my mind. Everything is a meaningful editorial decision. This IS a political statement. By including this you are implying it would have been undescriptive and impproper not to include whereas the opposite is the case.

And yes, I know it's off topic but I think it is important to call out nonsense when you see it lest it be normalized. If you want your article to be discussed instead of prompting a culture war, then don't bait a culture war.

Re: The strange new world of being a deepfake actor

#53

Post by ghaff »

anm89 wrote: post #52

> This is how Lewis D. Wheeler, a Boston-based white male actor The fact that this framing is so normalized to just be thrown out in a mostly technical article with no other explanation is insidious and insane. There's video of the guy right above. It's very clear what his skin color and gender are. And it's totally off topic. At a minimum if you are going to do this, it should be done for every single person mention…

1. The writer often does not know what other media is going to be edited into the article, especially if it also runs in print.

2. Much of the article talks about what factors are important and what aren't for a "deep fake actor." Skin color and gender seem absolutely relevant. (I don't necessarily disagree it could have been mentioned in other places as well.)

Re: The strange new world of being a deepfake actor

#54

Post by anm89 »

ghaff wrote: post #53
anm89 wrote: post #52

> This is how Lewis D. Wheeler, a Boston-based white male actor The fact that this framing is so normalized to just be thrown out in a mostly technical article with no other explanation is insidious and insane. There's video of the guy right above. It's very clear what his skin color and gender are. And it's totally off topic. At a minimum if you are going to do this, it should be done for every single person mention…

1. The writer often does not know what other media is going to be edited into the article, especially if it also runs in print. 2. Much of the article talks about what factors are important and what aren't for a "deep fake actor." Skin color and gender seem absolutely relevant. (I don't necessarily disagree it could have been mentioned in other places as well.)

Regarding point 2. That's totally valid if they come out and say why it matters. But they totally fail to connect those dots making it unclear if they are making that point or not.

Re: The strange new world of being a deepfake actor

#55

Post by ghaff »

anm89 wrote: post #54
ghaff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The writer often does not know what other media is going to be edited into the article, especially if it also runs in print. 2. Much of the article talks about what factors are important and what aren't for a "deep fake actor." Skin color and gender seem absolutely relevant. (I don't necessarily disagree it could have been mentioned in other places as well.)

Regarding point 2. That's totally valid if they come out and say why it matters. But they totally fail to connect those dots making it unclear if they are making that point or not.

Further down it says:

>For the visuals, Canny AI specializes in video dialogue replacement, which uses an actor’s mouth movements to manipulate someone else’s mouth in existing footage. The actor, in other words, serves as a puppeteer, never to be seen in the final product. The person’s appearance, gender, age, and ethnicity don’t really matter.

So I could argue it either way. If the gender and ethnicity didn't matter in the Nixon case, the writer/editor should probably have indicated that on the first mention. (On the other hand, they also wanted someone who sounded a bit like Nixon which would tend to lead you to a white male.)

Re: The strange new world of being a deepfake actor

#56

Post by watersb »

anm89 wrote: post #52

> This is how Lewis D. Wheeler, a Boston-based white male actor The fact that this framing is so normalized to just be thrown out in a mostly technical article with no other explanation is insidious and insane. There's video of the guy right above. It's very clear what his skin color and gender are. And it's totally off topic. At a minimum if you are going to do this, it should be done for every single person mention…

Lots of my friends went into pro acting. In that field, your body type is extremely important.

Re: The strange new world of being a deepfake actor

#57

Post by anm89 »

watersb wrote: post #56
anm89 wrote: post #52

> This is how Lewis D. Wheeler, a Boston-based white male actor The fact that this framing is so normalized to just be thrown out in a mostly technical article with no other explanation is insidious and insane. There's video of the guy right above. It's very clear what his skin color and gender are. And it's totally off topic. At a minimum if you are going to do this, it should be done for every single person mention…

Lots of my friends went into pro acting. In that field, your body type is extremely important.

Sure, but the article doesn't make that point. They just dump it there as if it's obvious why it needs to be said and then move on.

Re: The strange new world of being a deepfake actor

#58

Post by nkurz »

> This is how Lewis D. Wheeler, a Boston-based white male actor, found himself holed up in a studio for days listening to and repeating snippets of Nixon’s audio. There were hundreds of snippets, each only a few seconds long... Wheeler’s job was to re-record each snippet in his own voice, matching the exact rhythm and intonation. These little bits were then fed into Respeecher’s algorithm to map his voice to Nixon’s.

It would be nice to hear what the actor was able to produce directly, before it was "mapped" to be Nixon. With the amount of effort that was spent, I'd presume that there are actors good enough to create a convincing fakes even without the post-processing. Are there any before-and-after samples available?

Re: The strange new world of being a deepfake actor

#59

Post by jnwatson »

anm89 wrote: post #52

> This is how Lewis D. Wheeler, a Boston-based white male actor The fact that this framing is so normalized to just be thrown out in a mostly technical article with no other explanation is insidious and insane. There's video of the guy right above. It's very clear what his skin color and gender are. And it's totally off topic. At a minimum if you are going to do this, it should be done for every single person mention…

While I think it could have been structured better, I interpreted it as the baseline against which the later instance of the subject and actor being different races is contrasted.

Re: The strange new world of being a deepfake actor

#60

Post by ShamelessC »

carapace wrote: post #41
ShamelessC wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that this has been widespread on social media but do you know of any examples where reputable media outlets were fooled by a Photoshop? Not saying I don't believe you but I watch plenty of news and haven't personally seen much of this.

National Geographic moved the Pyramids for a cover photo in '82. https://www.alteredimagesbdc.org/national-geographic/ Granted that's a case of a reputable media outlet fooling their readers by Photoshop, but it's arguably part of the problem.

I think a case could be made that Nat Geo certainly took a hit to their reputation:

"The manipulation damaged the magazine’s credibility. Tom Kennedy, who became National Geographic’s Director of Photography after the incident, stated: “We no longer use that technology to manipulate elements in a photo simply to achieve a more compelling graphic effect. We regarded that afterwards as a mistake, and we wouldn’t repeat that mistake today.”

[https://www.alteredimagesbdc.org/national-geographic/]

In any case, I was certain it had happened but this isn't exactly compelling evidence that it's a widespread problem. A much more recent example would help your case. Also, (as you mentioned) this is a case of an outlet fooling people with their own fakes, not an outlet getting fooled by a fake which is more what I was referring to.

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