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Paper maps, two-way radios: how firefighting tech is stuck in the past

theguardian.com

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Re: Paper maps, two-way radios: how firefighting tech is stuck in the past

#51

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

FlyMoreRockets wrote: post #43
viraptor wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without much knowledge about the process: Is it a problem to have it handled via some centre? I.e. you're asking X to dispatch all of those requests for you which would free you up to drive? (And get either one of those calls connected directly to you as needed)

Exactly this. I spent decades as a FF/EMT and that's the way it was typically done. I did however, often carry a Baofeng programmed with _all_ the services with which I was likely to interact as a backup: MedEvac, EMS, law enforcement and fire services. Yes, I am a licensed ham operator. The problem is there is no national emergency interop frequency plan, each state, county and city does things differently.

DHS publishes the National Interoperability Field Operations Guide which includes a national channel plan for calling, simplex and deployable repeater operation.

Each state/county/etc. may have different licensing, but they are also encouraged to program the NIFOG channel plans when space is available on radios.

Re: Paper maps, two-way radios: how firefighting tech is stuck in the past

#52

Post by NoOneNew »

In emergency situations, having gear with as close to 100% uptime and 100% reliability as possible far outweighs something new and fancy that gets stuck on an update, license issue or needs a reboot.

People who dont risk their lives trying to save others in real, mortal danger, truly need to stop thinking their opinion holds weight in these situations.

Re: Paper maps, two-way radios: how firefighting tech is stuck in the past

#53

Post by aspectmin »

FF/EMT here. Love our radios. Super reliable. All the data stuff is crap. Our terminals and mapping are always losing connections. Same with paper maps. We still have big ones on our wall in the bay. Mandatory to look at it before we roll - we’ve added layers for hydrants and landing zones, etc. Best fire apparatus still have manual valves. All the electric and pneumatic stuff fails at the worst of time’s.

I do REALLY miss Nextel phone to phone though. That stuff was super useful.

Don’t get me wrong. I love tech. Retired Microsoft. Always have to have the latest. Apple Watch 6 on order. Can’t wait for Quest 2... but not on the foreground.

I do miss Nextel though. Did I mention that? Oh. And the InReach (and PLB) stuff is awesome for back country work.

Re: Paper maps, two-way radios: how firefighting tech is stuck in the past

#56

Post by tinus_hn »

rsync wrote: post #11
Aloha wrote: post #2

As someone who builds telecommunications systems for first responders, I'm not convinced that a chat service, and online technology is better than narrowband 2-way radio, and paper maps. These backcountry places often have no cell service, and paper maps don't have technical difficulties - and are easy/cheap to duplicate and hand out, in addition to being naturally rugged. So this means, expensive non-terrestrial com…

I am a firefighter/EMR in California. There is nothing wrong with two way radios, per se . The issue is the FCC "typing" rules that disallow a single device operating on multiple, disparate frequency bands. Imagine I respond to a car accident and need to call for a helicopter and arrange a landing zone. In this situation, I will be juggling four brick sized radios throughout the duration of that call.[1] Possibly whi…

> The issue is the FCC "typing" rules that disallow a single device operating on multiple, disparate frequency bands.

My phone that connects to multi band WiFi, Bluetooth, NFC, wireless charging and 2g, 3g and 4g disagrees with that statement.

Re: Paper maps, two-way radios: how firefighting tech is stuck in the past

#57

Post by stevoski »

> firefighting tech is stuck in the past

Utterly not my experience. I was heavily involved on the tech side of firefighting in Victoria, Australia for several years almost two decades ago. It was possibly the most tech-forward set of projects I’ve ever been involved in.

It was also probably the most interesting stuff I’ve worked on in my career.

Re: Paper maps, two-way radios: how firefighting tech is stuck in the past

#58

Post by fuzzfactor »

For industrial firefighting I was impressed with the frequent ongoing innovation seen in decades of print volumes of trade publication Industrial Fire World.

Mostly non-college people with more worthwhile creativity in their field than typical research PhD's in their typical pursuits, too.

Industrial disaster is a lot different than wildfires in nature or a suburban environment, even though many _suburbs_ have grown up around industrial facilities.

Seems like there could still be a good benefit from more cross-pollination between those most dedicated to saving lives in either situation.

Re: Paper maps, two-way radios: how firefighting tech is stuck in the past

#59

Post by Enginerrrd »

krapht wrote: post #47
Enginerrrd wrote: post #44

I want to take whoever wrote this and throw 40lbs of gear on their back (which is light, but that's just so they don't fully break on the trip) and have them go hump with me it over the roughest imaginable terrain and let them carry all the tech and batteries they want to their heart's content while we go cut fire lines. After they see how useless and unnecessary all that crap is, and how it goes tits up from being d…

You're exaggerating a little but I agree. I think your example with the FD map binder is a little weird though because that is the one thing that is worse than a maps app with real-time traffic updates. That's a killer feature especially during rush hour. The suburban department I volunteered in was known for having the second worst traffic in the US behind Los Angeles, so it's a little bit of a special circumstance.

I worked in an area where mapping apps are notoriously unreliable. There is no real traffic here but there's a lot of addresses that can't be found via any mapping app.

Real time updates are only gonna work when you have cell reception, which isn't true for a very large fraction of the time here.

Re: Paper maps, two-way radios: how firefighting tech is stuck in the past

#60

Post by Enginerrrd »

leetrout wrote: post #48
krapht wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're exaggerating a little but I agree. I think your example with the FD map binder is a little weird though because that is the one thing that is worse than a maps app with real-time traffic updates. That's a killer feature especially during rush hour. The suburban department I volunteered in was known for having the second worst traffic in the US behind Los Angeles, so it's a little bit of a special circumstance.

Northern Virginia?

PNW
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