Statement Regarding the Zen Programming Language

Post by justin66 » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 3:12 PM UTC

time0ut wrote: post #36

drcode wrote: post #10

As somebody that just got into Zig and loves the language, it makes me super sad that the developers on this project have to spend their valuable time stressing about BS like this. Also, the ideas the Zen people list on their website for forking Zig are terrible ideas- They were pushing to turn Zig into a hard-to-reason-about vanilla object-oriented programming language.

I feel so bad for Andrew. It must be frustrating to pour your heart into something beautiful like zig only to have this sort of thing happen. Now is a great time to sponsor the zig project on github!

Post by kristoff_it » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 3:13 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #35

zerr wrote: post #13

Seems like legit? https://zen-lang.org/zig/

I do admit that I find the "anti-business" citations pretty strange from the context of developing a programing language. I can understand this mindset if you're doing some work of art and don't want it corrupted by corporate drones, but for a technical tool I don't really get what could go wrong. What would a corporate sponsor of a programing language want? A clear release schedule and roadmap, stability, practicali…

Post by dnautics » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 3:14 PM UTC

CyberRabbi wrote: post #27

tl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking the story at face value: Zen lied to customers and the community, hired a developer away from Zig, and that developer cannot work on Zig now due to an NDA. GPL violations are not unknown. Would Zen have really cared about breaking the license? Would legal mechanisms work fast enough to limit damage?

All of that developers work on zen would be available to the zig foundation if it were licensed GPL. If it were licensed GPL and they were violating that license they could sue in the legal system instead of writing a blog post with dubious effect.

Post by CyberRabbi » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 3:16 PM UTC

kodablah wrote: post #50

CyberRabbi wrote: post #2

This is why you always use GPL

For those that believe in software freedoms as fewer restrictions, you have to accept that people may take advantage of your fewer restrictions. This is the cost of giving more (beer) freedom, and you don't have to abandon your principles because of how it manifests. (this has obvious political analogies in other restriction-less freedom contexts too)

Post by pfraze » Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 3:16 PM UTC

ModernMech wrote: post #41

CyberRabbi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key takeaway for me is that a third party is able to use thousands of manhours of someone else’s labor as a basis for their closed source product without having to share their enhancements or pay a dime. If zig were licensed GPL, the zig foundation would be able to sell permissive licenses to companies that don’t want to share source as a way to fundraise.

> a third party is able to use thousands of manhours of someone else’s labor as a basis for their closed source product without having to share their enhancements or pay a dime. This is my favorite part about open source. Why are you painting it as a bad thing?