I see it as good news.
If employees can be fully productive while working from home, they can be equally productive while working from Mumbai.
I'd rather be in NYC office.
At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home
51–60 of 271 posts
Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home
#52This may be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly can't wait to get back to the office (or any other workspace that isn't my home). I really hate working at home. I don't have enough space or privacy, it becomes far more difficult to partition work and play when they occur in the same spaces / I find myself distracted more easily, and there is no one to socialize with when I'm sitting by myself every day. Could I reme…
I've officially reached zero productivity today. I'm sick of being stuck in my tiny condo with the noise from neighbors and zero work/life balance. The constant streams of asks on Slack that wake me up in the morning and keep me up at night. I'm making more in the stock market than my job.
Might seem a little off topic, but you are well positioned to read "Deep Work" by Cal Newport. It's been discussed on HN many times, and when I recently read it, it felt like someone finally "got it". Like "yes, this is what I've believed, but now someone else is saying it!".
Back on topic - I've been on both sides of this. I started working from home ~7 years ago when I took a job on the west coast, but opted to stay in Chicago.
Prior to this role, I had worked almost exclusively IN the office for ~10 years, with the very occasional WFH day (literally about 1-2 days/year, usually during the holidays, so definitely not a habitual thing).
When I started WFH, I loved it...for about 3 months. I relished the lack of commute. I enjoyed the additional focus / reduced distractions. But then I started to feel the downsides. The lack of connection with people, the higher effort required to collaborate on some kinds of things, etc.
Over the years though, I found a balance. I found new outlets. New habits. And about ~25% travel helped break things up a bit.
And then COVID hit.
And now I'm back to fully hating WFH. My new habits, outlets, and most importantly the work travel, were no longer viable.
On top of that, while I may have been comfortable with WFH by the time this all started, most of the people with work with were not. So they're going through the learning curve, and I'm empathizing every step of the way. Which is in turn reminding me about the things I dislike.
Anyway, this is a super long winded comment that I'll bring to a close by saying: WFH is not a cure-all. It's not a solution to every problem. Like everything in life, it needs to be applied prudently, and a balance must be found.
My advice to you and people struggling with similar challenges is this: quickly learn to set boundaries.
- Set "Do not Disturb" windows on all work apps/notifications.
- Set clear expectations with your management about when you'll start/stop your day
- Don't succumb to the temptation to just keep working...working...working at the end of the day
- If possible (this is hard or impossible for some), set up a dedicated work space
- Only check Slack once/hour if you can. Encourage your team to do the same.
- Invest in good noise cancelling headphones
- Oh, and read Deep Work :)
Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home
#53This may be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly can't wait to get back to the office (or any other workspace that isn't my home). I really hate working at home. I don't have enough space or privacy, it becomes far more difficult to partition work and play when they occur in the same spaces / I find myself distracted more easily, and there is no one to socialize with when I'm sitting by myself every day. Could I reme…
> Could I remedy all of these problems with extra effort? Sure, but it's far easier for me to simply go to the office.
This, exactly this. People adverse to self discipline are the ones that most want to go into the office, because its "the easy way". But people with discipline should have always, and should continue to be given the choice to work in the way that suits them the best, if you will, that is "easiest" for them. Don't try and make me come into the office too when the things that happen at the office
* open office distractions & lack of privacy * trivial socialization * commuting to and from work
are what makes it not "easier" for me to get my work done. Diversity folks, or if you will, different strokes for different folks.
Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being in an office would make me more distracted imho. Between wondering if the ventilation is giving me covid from careless co-workers, to being more separate from family and home should another disaster crop up. Edit: careless not carless ... lol
Right now I'd pay good money for corporate HVAC. I'm coughing myself to death in my own home right now
If this is because of high PM2.5 concentration (due to wildfires or otherwise), I suggest building a DIY air filter, such as the one in the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU
When the Air Quality Index shot up to ~150 in my area (you want to keep it below 100, preferably below 50), I went to Home Depot and bought box fans and furnace filters and built my own.
You can check the air quality in your area on this site: https://aqicn.org
Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home
#55Dimon kind of throws them under the bus, doesn't he: "Work output by younger employees was particularly affected on Mondays and Fridays, according to findings discussed by Chief Executive Office Jamie Dimon in a private meeting with Keefe, Bruyette & Woods analysts. That, along with worries that remote work is no substitute for organic interaction, are part of why the biggest U.S. bank is urging more workers to retur…
LOL - as a data analyst - I would love to know how they measured this and what their confidence interval is. It's interesting they didn't share any percentages. And it's interesting that they didn't talk about weekend work at all. A lot of people where I work are working shorter days, but also working a little bit on the weekends. I realize JPM is a pretty big company - but the way this works at a lot of companies is…
This is very on point to how large companies operate.
Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home
#56Younger employees probably have less space. Apartment/house shares, etc. I've known some who are working on their bed. This isn't healthy nor is it likely to be conducive to productivity.
Not to minimize the struggles of suburban parents, but I do feel they might be divorced from what single urban life is like right now.
As a "younger" (30 year old) tech employee, in addition to living in a cramped space with 3 roommates in SF with no privacy, I have to work in a dining room because my bedroom has very thin walls. I also have to do cook and clean way more often, when I previously used to get 3 meals a day at work. I also have to haul groceries a couple times a week, which is super painful without a car, and then I have to compete for very limited fridge space.
I also haven't met friends and family in over 6 months, and my dating life's been obliterated. It's been mentally taxing in a way that living with your loved ones in a McMansion isn't. I can't even handle Zoom calls with friends anymore. It's the last thing I want to do after the 3 hours of back to back Zoom meetings I get roped into because I'm "senior".
Again, I don't mean to minimize the struggles of parents, college kids, the many people unemployed, our essential workers keeping things running, or our elderly who are at risk of dying. I'm in a very privileged position. But it's clear that all the lifestyle changes I've been forced to make have been a huge drain on my productivity.
Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home
#57Dimon kind of throws them under the bus, doesn't he: "Work output by younger employees was particularly affected on Mondays and Fridays, according to findings discussed by Chief Executive Office Jamie Dimon in a private meeting with Keefe, Bruyette & Woods analysts. That, along with worries that remote work is no substitute for organic interaction, are part of why the biggest U.S. bank is urging more workers to retur…
LOL - as a data analyst - I would love to know how they measured this and what their confidence interval is. It's interesting they didn't share any percentages. And it's interesting that they didn't talk about weekend work at all. A lot of people where I work are working shorter days, but also working a little bit on the weekends. I realize JPM is a pretty big company - but the way this works at a lot of companies is…
Yeah when you dig you'll often find out "decrease in productivity" is in the noise of the data. CEOs and managers enjoy control and surveying their minor kingdoms. I think it's more about ego than efficiency. I know that I am dramatically more productive at home. I hate the distractions at work. The random drop bys, the "do you have a second", the "15 minute (oops 1 hour)" meetings that could be done over slack or email. It's ridiculous. I know it really depends on your work and personality but by and large managerials are type A with egos and they are starting to feel less important so everybody needs to get back to the office stat.
Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've officially reached zero productivity today. I'm sick of being stuck in my tiny condo with the noise from neighbors and zero work/life balance. The constant streams of asks on Slack that wake me up in the morning and keep me up at night. I'm making more in the stock market than my job.
Might seem a little off topic, but you are well positioned to read "Deep Work" by Cal Newport. It's been discussed on HN many times, and when I recently read it, it felt like someone finally "got it". Like "yes, this is what I've believed, but now someone else is saying it!". Back on topic - I've been on both sides of this. I started working from home ~7 years ago when I took a job on the west coast, but opted to sta…
> - If possible (this is hard or impossible for some), set up a dedicated work space
This is the real killer IMO. It's impossible to focus in a studio apartment. It's where I cook, eat, drink, sleep, Netflix, and now work.
Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
One can do differential comparison for day of week. AggregateOverEmployeesByAgeGroup(AggregateDatesBeforeCovid(Prod(employee_i | day of week)/AggregateDatesAfterCovid(Prod(employee_i | day of week before covid))) Then see if it is flat or if there is changes (such as it dips on monday/friday)
Thats .. an adjustment. It really doesn't tell you if the work inputs allocated to young vs old groups shifted before and after covid. Also, I question the validity of the Prod( ) function as, like much other information work, the productivity yields on different timeframes and can be very difficult to correlate inputs vs outputs.
There were 3 things mentioned in the article. Younger vs older, Monday and Friday vs rest of week for younger, and creativity. You could theoretically measure younger vs older in the same job and also compare those two groups by M/F vs rest of work week. Compare those groups before and after COVID-19.
Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home
#60Younger employees probably have less space. Apartment/house shares, etc. I've known some who are working on their bed. This isn't healthy nor is it likely to be conducive to productivity.
As opposed to older employees...who have a spouse, who may also WFH, and and kids...who are doing remote learning?
I have a spouse and a kid, and though it's super taxing trying to get any work done, at least I have these super great relationships to lean on. I know that if I were on month six of having roommates that were not close friends, I'd be going absolutely bonkers.
Of course every personality type deals with this differently, as we all need different things in life. And if I didn't have such a luckily great family life I could easily be miserable. I seem to notice more breakups and divorces recently, but that's hard to quantify beyond my acquaintances. Maybe a social scientist will measure this.