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Update on My Situation

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Re: Update on My Situation

#51

Post by syllogism »

kryogen1c wrote: post #46
dragonwriter wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These days it might be possible to "cancel" someone for something that they didn't even say/do It always has been. And, often the “cancelling” has been total and irreversible, not, as it often is with the “cancel culture” of recent complaints, just a reduction in current popularity with a particular segment of society (frequently accompanied by profitable celebrity status with an opposing and at least roughly equiv…

> It always has been. this is wildly untrue. ted bundy escaped police custody (from being charged with multiple murders), moved a couple states, and kept raping and murdering for years. this was 50 years ago. if someone catches you on video on a field trip like the covington high kids, you might get death threats of such credibility that your school will have to shut down and youll have to sue major "news" networks b…

Bundy was at large for 6 days after his first escape, and a bit over 2 months in his second escape (December 31 to February 12).

Re: Update on My Situation

#52

Post by unityByFreedom »

acituan wrote: post #31
unityByFreedom wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people go this route, do they still see or talk to another therapist? I always figured people's chemical imbalances were influenced by behavior. If you just treat the chemical imbalance without addressing the behavior, isn't that rather risky?

They do. Psychotherapists cannot prescribe medication but are licensed to deliver psychotherapy. Psychiatrists, who are MDs, can prescribe medication but also can do psychotherapy if they choose to do so. I even know psychiatrists that only do psychotherapy and won't do medication management. To complicate further, non-psychiatrist MDs can also prescribe certain classes of psychotropic medication. Either way, pharmac…

> pharmacotherapy is rarely administered alone, usually psychotherapists refer patients to psychiatrists if they believe pharmacotherapy can be beneficial, and with patient's consent they can share notes. He will be that therapist.

I see, thank you for your reply.

Re: Update on My Situation

#53

Post by dragonwriter »

kryogen1c wrote: post #46
dragonwriter wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These days it might be possible to "cancel" someone for something that they didn't even say/do It always has been. And, often the “cancelling” has been total and irreversible, not, as it often is with the “cancel culture” of recent complaints, just a reduction in current popularity with a particular segment of society (frequently accompanied by profitable celebrity status with an opposing and at least roughly equiv…

> It always has been. this is wildly untrue. ted bundy escaped police custody (from being charged with multiple murders), moved a couple states, and kept raping and murdering for years. this was 50 years ago. if someone catches you on video on a field trip like the covington high kids, you might get death threats of such credibility that your school will have to shut down and youll have to sue major "news" networks b…

Even if your supporting facts weren't wrong, you seem to be confusing “it is sometimes possible to temporarily avoid consequences for something you did do” for disproof of “it is possible to be cancelled for something you didn't do”, which it most emphatically is not.

Re: Update on My Situation

#54

Post by bargl »

dragonwriter wrote: post #29
wmf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days it might be possible to "cancel" someone for something that they didn't even say/do, although I'd hope that the victim could bounce back once the mob moved on. Of course, you could also get killed crossing the street.

> These days it might be possible to "cancel" someone for something that they didn't even say/do It always has been. And, often the “cancelling” has been total and irreversible, not, as it often is with the “cancel culture” of recent complaints, just a reduction in current popularity with a particular segment of society (frequently accompanied by profitable celebrity status with an opposing and at least roughly equiv…

There is no one definition of cancel culture. Many people don't know what they even mean when they talk about it.

If we break cancel culture up into roughly before the internet and after. Being canceled (I'd call a non-violent black-sheep status) was a local phenomenon, it was in your town, your church, or your local group. You could move away to reclaim anonymity.

Today, you can't hide from it, but it's as you said, a quick burst. But I think you're forgetting that these ramifications aren't just about you being hated by the internet, they can follow you by alienating friends/family. They have made people lose jobs. They take a person's worst moment and give it permanence in a way that wasn't possible in the past.

I'd probably say that cancel culture requires the internet to really be a thing, because now we can take anyone who's worst moment is caught on video and have it follow them around forever. Sure the internet as a whole might not hate you for more than a week or so, but the ramifications of unwanted massive celebrity must be profound.

To be clear, I'd consider cancellations to be people who are not famous and don't want to be famous. Even that level of positive reception by half of a socially powerful group might be unwanted, especially if you don't really align with them.

I'll finish with this, cancel culture is a minor problem compared to those of our ancestors. But it's still something we as a society can try to work on. As individuals when we see someone being canceled, don't dog pile on them, look for context and dig deeper. Sometimes it will make you more angry there are people you're not going to like out there.

Side story: When I was a kid I had a bully for all of 1 year in elementary school, he'd trip me at recess every day. One day I lost it and punched him in the face. I remember this clearly, he waited a few weeks then tripped me one more time. For most of us that'd be the end of the story, but a few years later, a family friend of mine brought him by our house and I had to play with him for an afternoon. We got to talking and playing. Just two kids playing as if we didn't know each other. I found out he had dealt with some shit I never had to, and it showed me that his behavior wasn't all his own. I don't regret punching him, I don't begrudge him being a bully for a year, but I do thank that family friend for giving me an afternoon of seeing more context. It showed me that, I don't have to like everyone, and I don't have to let people walk on me, but I do have to do my best to understand people even when I don't like them.

Sorry maybe that's not relevant, but I think about the kid that I was getting thrust onto the internet for punching someone, no context, no background and I'd probably not have learned from it.

Edit: context around the link. Just a really good video I watched from a person I like on this topic. Sometimes I'll haunt my threads to reply to people but I don't really feel like it tonight, so have a good night everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p26JJxvw4lM

Re: Update on My Situation

#55

Post by indrax »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #20
dmurray wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this doesn't really answer the question, though. Psychiatrists like to do X - is that because they follow a cargo cult of other psychiatrists who do X, or because there's empirical evidence that not-X is bad for patient outcomes (or bad for doctor outcomes - he has repeatedly mentioned concerns over his physical security)? This is exactly the kind of question I'd expect SSC to tackle thoughtfully on his blog…

Consider therapists who have you lie on a couch vs those who have you sit in the same style chair, as an equal. Some therapists position themselves as an authority figure for their patients. If they were to open up about themselves, the patient might think they're incapable after seeing the therapist has doubts in their own life. This has advantages and drawbacks. It may be more efficient in earning trust, thus helpi…

>It's really hard IMO to get communicable science out of talk therapy because there are so many variables and it is extremely subjective and personal. The whole point is to help a patient navigate their own issues.

Eliza did this for some people decades ago. An app with GTP-3 could do a lot if it could navigate the legal and ethical issues.

Re: Update on My Situation

#56

Post by sillysaurusx »

Barrin92 wrote: post #48
sillysaurusx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah. Thank you! That’s an entirely reasonable theory that fits the data. I didn’t realize he blogged about his patients. Do you happen to know of any examples of articles he published along those lines? Now I’m curious what he said...

https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/07/12/34/ here's one, I don't know if he put that preface on all of them, apparently he fictionalises them and mixes them up.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-roman... is another.

I think your theory is spot on.

Re: Update on My Situation

#57

Post by dragonwriter »

bargl wrote: post #54
dragonwriter wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These days it might be possible to "cancel" someone for something that they didn't even say/do It always has been. And, often the “cancelling” has been total and irreversible, not, as it often is with the “cancel culture” of recent complaints, just a reduction in current popularity with a particular segment of society (frequently accompanied by profitable celebrity status with an opposing and at least roughly equiv…

There is no one definition of cancel culture. Many people don't know what they even mean when they talk about it. If we break cancel culture up into roughly before the internet and after. Being canceled (I'd call a non-violent black-sheep status) was a local phenomenon, it was in your town, your church, or your local group. You could move away to reclaim anonymity. Today, you can't hide from it, but it's as you said,…

> I'd probably say that cancel culture requires the internet to really be a thing

Blacklisting with more than local scope (and, while nonviolent in themselves, again, vastly more drastic practical impact than modern “cancel culture”—and particularly, often, a much more direct and total impact on employability, and often impacting people with less socioeconomic privilege and associated security than are at issue with “cancel culture” complaints) was a thing long before the internet, to the point that laws curtailing it in certain contexts were adopted (and fought against by blacklisters) before WWII.

EDIT: The internet or something like it may help the less privileged coordinate against the more privileged, changing who is potentially exposed to something that the powerful have always had in their toolbox, though.

Re: Update on My Situation

#58

Post by unityByFreedom »

indrax wrote: post #55
unityByFreedom wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider therapists who have you lie on a couch vs those who have you sit in the same style chair, as an equal. Some therapists position themselves as an authority figure for their patients. If they were to open up about themselves, the patient might think they're incapable after seeing the therapist has doubts in their own life. This has advantages and drawbacks. It may be more efficient in earning trust, thus helpi…

>It's really hard IMO to get communicable science out of talk therapy because there are so many variables and it is extremely subjective and personal. The whole point is to help a patient navigate their own issues. Eliza did this for some people decades ago. An app with GTP-3 could do a lot if it could navigate the legal and ethical issues.

No, just no. Not even close.

Re: Update on My Situation

#60

Post by mindfulhack »

> At this point I think maintaining anonymity is a losing battle.

> I may start my own private practice, where I’m my own boss and where I can focus on medication management – and not the kinds of psychotherapy that I’m most worried are ethically incompatible with being a public figure.

This is why privacy is important - to maintain boundaries between different parts of your life, like work and personal.

We are all complex human beings and we deserve to be 3-dimensional, not 1-dimensional.

Capitalism prefers that humans be one-dimensional cogs in its machine. That we be specialised. One type of personality or field of expertise only. If not, you're paid less, you're respected less, you're listened to less. And it's only because people know more about you than they did before.

It is a real shame what has happened here. But even more, it is a shame that humans treat each other in 1-dimensional ways. We dehumanise and objectify one another, in transactional and very non-personal ways. But we're all persons, who deserve to feel, operate, and be treated as such. There is much about capitalism and trade that is problematic.

I wish Scott well in his endeavours.

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