Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#51

Post by MrStonedOne » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

smnrchrds wrote: post #44

dylan604 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is awesome in a very very sad way. Several years ago, I started working for a company that was in the build up to a Yea/Nay vote for joining the union. During that time, 2 "goons" showed up at my apartment to discuss the benefits of joining the union and why not joining would be bad. However, these very "intelligent" goons showed up during the day, you know, working hours where I had a very low chance of being h…

What makes you call them goons? Politicians, activists, all sorts of people go door knocking around the time of elections and referendums. What made this interaction so different that you call them goons sent there to intimidate you, not activists trying to attract your vote?

corpitized unions (anything union organisation bigger then 1 location of 1 employer) are goons.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#52

Post by dylan604 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

smnrchrds wrote: post #44

dylan604 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is awesome in a very very sad way. Several years ago, I started working for a company that was in the build up to a Yea/Nay vote for joining the union. During that time, 2 "goons" showed up at my apartment to discuss the benefits of joining the union and why not joining would be bad. However, these very "intelligent" goons showed up during the day, you know, working hours where I had a very low chance of being h…

What makes you call them goons? Politicians, activists, all sorts of people go door knocking around the time of elections and referendums. What made this interaction so different that you call them goons sent there to intimidate you, not activists trying to attract your vote?

I used quotes because I was quoting my flatmate. She said their demeanor was not welcoming at all, and it felt very aggressive. I kind of wish I was there just so I could have told them what I thought, but spilled milk and what not.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#53

Post by diebeforei485 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

anoxor wrote: post #16

Having been a part of a union I was mandated to enter when I took the job until the supreme court ruled that wasn't legal, actual unions are a far cry from how they are portrayed as helping the worker. I would honestly do anything in my power to not have to work in a union again. They are set up as antagonistic between administration and workers, and adds a layer of bureaucracy that I've only seen be negative. I've w…

I think unions are only helpful when employers are particularly bad and have no intention of improving.

In most other cases, unions are generally harmful, including most public-sector unions.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#54

Post by trefoiled » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

mattacular wrote: post #43

ouid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a growing part of america that is coming around to the idea that the path to more negotiating power for laborers is not unions. It is through basic income and social safety nets.

How would basic income and social safety nets increase labors negotiating power?

Less precarity. If you aren't terrified of losing your job, because you know you won't be instantly devastated without it (losing health insurance, being evicted), you have less to lose in labor negotiations.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#55

Post by dylan604 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

Communitivity wrote: post #14

This does not surprise me. I've been waiting to see corporate intelligence agencies pop up. When you think about it, Amazon had an operating budget last year of around $309 billion [1], already 75% of Germany's at $399 billion [2]. Facebook has an operating budget of around $35 billion, but that is still enough to field a small intelligence arm. Also, that is Facebook..not all Facebook properties combined. [1] https:…

Wasn't there previous news stories of FB doing exactly this? A 3rd party was hired to investigate something. It's all fuzzy, so if I'm totally wrong, someone please correct me.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#56

Post by diebeforei485 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

mattacular wrote: post #43

ouid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a growing part of america that is coming around to the idea that the path to more negotiating power for laborers is not unions. It is through basic income and social safety nets.

How would basic income and social safety nets increase labors negotiating power?

It's much easier to quit an abusive boss if you have some income to sustain yourself (UBI). You don't have to put up with the abuse for another month or two until you have a new job offer, etc.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#57

Post by dylan604 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

backtoyoujim wrote: post #19

Never ask the drivers about unionizing. I'm not saying that they will report it to their boss who will mess with your orders and deliveries. But I am also not not saying that.

A nod is as good as a wink to a blind man. Got something that helps you lean towards that conclusion?

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#58

Post by ouid » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

mattacular wrote: post #43

ouid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a growing part of america that is coming around to the idea that the path to more negotiating power for laborers is not unions. It is through basic income and social safety nets.

How would basic income and social safety nets increase labors negotiating power?

I assume you're asking this question in good faith.

Negotiating power is derived exclusively from the ability to walk away. When walking away from your employment means being evicted, starving, and being unable to afford medical care, your ability to do so is crippled.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#59

Post by MrStonedOne » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

xnyan wrote: post #29

anoxor wrote: post #16

Having been a part of a union I was mandated to enter when I took the job until the supreme court ruled that wasn't legal, actual unions are a far cry from how they are portrayed as helping the worker. I would honestly do anything in my power to not have to work in a union again. They are set up as antagonistic between administration and workers, and adds a layer of bureaucracy that I've only seen be negative. I've w…

Would you agree that there are some corrupt market-based economies in our world? Would you say that the fact that there are corrupt and inefficient market-based economies means that all market-based economies result in negative outcomes? Saying that support of organized labor = support of corrupt unions is a pretty weak strawman.

I could ask you the same question, about unions.

What I love are unions that set abnormally high union initiation fees, only offer payment plans on people who sign dues check off forms, then include language in that dues check off form that keeps you from cancelling it unless you do so during a 15 day window every year.

As long as unions can forced on empolyees, unions can not be a market-based economy, it can not ever act against the interest of the empolyees it serves.

Why is it harder for a workplace to leave a union that is no longer serving its interests (to none or another union) then it is for the union to form in the first place?

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#60

Post by dylan604 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

ancorevard wrote: post #31

I've not seen good come out of unions in decades. Example of unions that are net negative for society: police unions, teacher unions.

I have lots of friends in the "movie making" business. Lots of crew members like camera department, set construction, etc. Before Obama care, the only way these folks could afford health insurance was to join the union. Even my actor friends have used the medical coverage as their sole reason. They are not looking to be SAG members for SAG work (we're in Texas so not necessary), but use it for the other benefits.

It's the only time it has made sense to me, within my lifetime. Otherwise, I think unions have way more power than what they need at this time. Now, they have to do things to justify their existence. Would things go back to the way they were before unions if they didn't exist?