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Why we are suing the Administration

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Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#51

Post by m0zg »

simion314 wrote: post #31
m0zg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FB and Twitter no doubt brainwash people into all kinds of silliness - we've seen that quite vividly in the past 3 months. But there's not a whole lot you can do about them legally under US law. There is a whole lot you can do with TikTok and other foreign companies that represent a national security threat.

That is the point, make a new law. I mean FB way where I can target with ads extremely precise groups make it possible to systematically slit a nation in all the political regions, split the population in relevant groups, and preciously target them non stop with fake or misleading stuff. This could be fixed in many , many ways - like not allowing political ads, or not allowing targeted political ads, or labeling clea…

There already exists a law: if there's a threat to national security (which there is), the executive branch has relatively broad discretion. You can't really "make a law" in the time remaining until election, not with Pelosi turning everything into a political showdown, and _especially_ not if China prefers Biden (which, according to Nancy Pelosi it does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arS5qzS95cE).

Here's one way you could interfere with US elections without showing political ads BTW: show "vote" reminders only to people who you infer from data to be democrats. At a first approximation, to people in urban centers in swing states. Not an "ad" per se, but you can still swing the election quite easily - in swing states elections are close by definition. As far as I'm aware there exists no law prohibiting such interference.

This is how FB and Twitter are going to do it if the DNC doesn't like the final polls.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#52

Post by liuyong »

fvv wrote: post #24

Chinese administration ban or ostracize large portion of us software , imo us and eu must do the same 'til minimum information freedom for free people ( no China firewall,information circulation ban ) is allowed there too

They are not comparable.

Quote form fortune[1]:

Kai-Fu Lee, a leading artificial intelligence expert who heads the tech investment firm Sinovation Ventures, worked for Google in China between 2005 and 2009. (Until 2009, Google operated a separate, censored version of its search engine in China.) He said in a Chinese-language statement on Tuesday that Google's experience in China and TikTok's case in the U.S. are "not comparable."

When Google decided it didn't want to comply with China's rules, "it decided to withdraw" from the mainland, Lee said. With TikTok, Lee said, the U.S. government did not provide information on what the app could do to continue operating in the U.S. as a Chinese-owned company, nor did the U.S. provide evidence for its complaints against the app.

[1] https://fortune.com/2020/08/06/tiktok-ban-trump-executive-or...

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#53

Post by ThomPete »

simion314 wrote: post #31
m0zg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FB and Twitter no doubt brainwash people into all kinds of silliness - we've seen that quite vividly in the past 3 months. But there's not a whole lot you can do about them legally under US law. There is a whole lot you can do with TikTok and other foreign companies that represent a national security threat.

That is the point, make a new law. I mean FB way where I can target with ads extremely precise groups make it possible to systematically slit a nation in all the political regions, split the population in relevant groups, and preciously target them non stop with fake or misleading stuff. This could be fixed in many , many ways - like not allowing political ads, or not allowing targeted political ads, or labeling clea…

It's not about fake news it's about data access.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#54

Post by brabel »

disgu wrote: post #42
fvv wrote: post #24

Chinese administration ban or ostracize large portion of us software , imo us and eu must do the same 'til minimum information freedom for free people ( no China firewall,information circulation ban ) is allowed there too

So you're in favor of the EU forcing Tesla, Facebook, Microsoft to sell their European business to European companies then because those American companies are clearly not up to European privacy standards? We literally know for a fact that American companies do all the things the Trump administration is accusing TikTok of doing. We've known this since the Snowden revelations. It's also a 100% different scenario becau…

Exactly! I am in favour of that. The EU protects its citizens but only to the degree it doesn't damage its relationship with the US. They need to grow some balls and stop treating the US as if it were its best mate. Clearly they are not and their laws do not protect foreign nationals in any way, or at least nearly as much as EU regulations would have them do.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#55

Post by swiley »

simion314 wrote: post #12
bootloop wrote: post #7

Why is the US always focusing on individual companies instead of working on laws to protect them from all companies invading the privacy of their citizens? Banning one player isn't going to help much in the long run I would think. Edit: I am an EU citizen if it matters.

They would need to explain how TicTok brainwashes americans to vote(or not vote) but Facebook and Twitter categorically does not do the same thing. If "brainwashing" on social media exists then all should be made illegal not only the a small subset.

As a US citizen, I would absolutely like domestic social media companies to be held similarly accountable.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#56

Post by Udik »

phantomathkg wrote: post #14
bootloop wrote: post #7

Why is the US always focusing on individual companies instead of working on laws to protect them from all companies invading the privacy of their citizens? Banning one player isn't going to help much in the long run I would think. Edit: I am an EU citizen if it matters.

Because the subtext is, "It is OK for companies to invade the privacy of US citizens, so long the companies' own countries is also on the US side as well".

> so long the companies' own countries is also on the US side as well

The US side of what? What does it mean to be on the US side?

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#57

Post by m0zg »

ThomPete wrote: post #53
simion314 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the point, make a new law. I mean FB way where I can target with ads extremely precise groups make it possible to systematically slit a nation in all the political regions, split the population in relevant groups, and preciously target them non stop with fake or misleading stuff. This could be fixed in many , many ways - like not allowing political ads, or not allowing targeted political ads, or labeling clea…

It's not about fake news it's about data access.

It's about both, really. Data is darn near useless by itself. But from data you can easily infer things like age, gender, political affiliation, income and education level and so on, which can then be _easily_ used to swing an election.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#58

Post by camillomiller »

jand wrote: post #21
auggierose wrote: post #3

Well, try suing the administration in China ...

I do not think that the actions of a 3rd party should be influencing our decisions regarding the standards we apply to ourselves.

A huge amount of smart people in the U.S. seem to completely forget this when it comes to China. Everyone's so effectively brainwashed to think that China = bad that you can't even start any type of complex conversation about such a multifaceted topic.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#59

Post by threeseed »

jorge-d wrote: post #10
ddorian43 wrote: post #4

This needs to be done to all Chinese businesses. They do the same. China has become too powerful for everyone-else good.

Yeah because obviously when the US administration uses all the big american tech giants to spy on every internet user it's for "everyone-else good" /s

If you believe this then you have grounds to sue the US administration.

Good luck trying that in China.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#60

Post by baybal2 »

ackbar03 wrote: post #47
Traster wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US political system is structured in such a way that it's very difficult to draft legislation and get it passed. You have to get a bill to pass a majority in the house, then (generally) get 60% in the senate, then get past the president's veto, and then implementation of that legislation will fall to a governmental organisation ultimately run by a political appointee who is appointed by the President and confirme…

I didn't know the details of this before lol. That sounds like a nightmare it's a wonder anything gets done...

> "US political systems was purposefully engineered for a deadlock"
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