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Motivation – Keli Language

keli-language.gitbook.io

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Re: Motivation – Keli Language

#51

Post by pgustafs »

misja111 wrote: post #34

I think it's great that Keli is designed with IDE support in mind. However I believe that this is only half of the reason why FP still doesn't really break through in the corporate world. The other reason is that many FP users are too enthusiastic about creating abstractions. This is of course something that FP is exceptionally well suited for. An api that was written to simply process a list of Orders into a Report…

The funny thing (that I'm sure you're aware of) is that 'prefer composition over inheritance' is an instance of 'prefer referential transparency', an idea from FP that you should always know what a variable is referencing. In OOP, this means that inheritance is bad because it's not always clear what functions are inherited and/or overloaded.

Re: Motivation – Keli Language

#52

Post by pmarreck »

theshetty wrote: post #44

Why is no one talking much about Scala? ( https://docs.scala-lang.org/overviews/scala-book/functional-... )

Because we're trying to turn people on to functional programming, not off

EDIT: Downvotes already? Look, Scala is NOT noob-friendly, and it's a rational argument, not a preference. Here's an example: There are at least 10 (TEN) different uses of the underscore character (_) in Scala. JFC. I can go on, such as the proliferation of bizarre operators everywhere that are impossible to Google (again, not noob-friendly), the reliance on JVM (ewww... so you end up having to be a Scala expert AND a Java expert... plus deal with JVM windup time and JVM stacktraces... Not noob-friendly), the consistent violation of POLS, etc. etc.

Re: Motivation – Keli Language

#53

Post by Nullabillity »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #35
exclipy wrote: post #18

Anyone else irked by the use of "Intellisense" - a Microsoft brand - when "autocomplete" will do?

Seems like they're complaining (for lack of a better word) about only having word autocomplete available for most functional languages versus a more refined suggestion tool like Intellisense. But yeah, they don't get that specific about that fact. I guess Intellisense has entered the realm of Kleenex in how it's used.

Mostly in .NET communities though, from what I've seen.

Re: Motivation – Keli Language

#54

Post by pjmlp »

misja111 wrote: post #34

I think it's great that Keli is designed with IDE support in mind. However I believe that this is only half of the reason why FP still doesn't really break through in the corporate world. The other reason is that many FP users are too enthusiastic about creating abstractions. This is of course something that FP is exceptionally well suited for. An api that was written to simply process a list of Orders into a Report…

There is plenty of FP in the corporate world, the mistake that many FP advocates make is to make it a war of FP vs anything else.

Meanwhile multiple paradigm languages keep getting most of the features that actually matter to Joe/Jane developer.

Re: Motivation – Keli Language

#56

Post by pjmlp »

sfvisser wrote: post #13

I really appreciate the effort of designing the syntax to match common IDE expectations. However, I think it shouldn't be too difficult to add intellisense for Haskell-like syntax to IDEs as well. Especially with all the types available! The only unconventional thing is that the function might be put in-front of the value and some parentheses need to be added, instead of just putting it after the cursor like with met…

Like Leksah.

Re: Motivation – Keli Language

#57

Post by linkdd »

pmontra wrote: post #12
maest wrote: post #3

The following example is kinda funny: // This is obviously not too right ",".splitBy("1,2,3,4,5") // This should be right, because it reads out more naturally "1,2,3,4,5".splitBy(",") Seeing as Python uses the first version for .join()

Exactly what I came here to write about: Python 3.8.2 (default, Jul 16 2020, 14:00:26) >>> " ".join(["a", "b"]) 'a b' vs Ruby 2.6.5 :001 > ["a", "b"].join(" ") => "a b" I don't know which one is more natural but I prefer the Ruby version because it's consistent with "a b".split(" ") which works in both languages. One less think to remember.

In Python:

["a", "b"].join(" ")

This would mean the type list has a method join, how would it work with the following ?

[1.5, "hello", None].join(" ")

Re: Motivation – Keli Language

#58

Post by pcstl »

Kaze404 wrote: post #37
hashbig wrote: post #27

Elm single handedly got me into functional programming. Everything from the syntax to the standard library. I haven’t used a language that was that elegant and delightful to use perhaps since I discovered Ruby. It makes me really sad that Elm turned to this niche language/framework that it is today. I had hoped for it to grow someday to have a mobile target in addition to web, to be able to use it on the server, hell…

I also love Elm, but the fact that it is a niche language now doesn't mean it's all it ever will be. There's nothing really stopping anyone from adapting Elm to the server for example, but the reason it hasn't been done yet is because it's best to focus on solving one problem at a time. If Evan just translated the Node standard api 1:1 for example, it wouldn't be Elm or Node and there would be no reason to use it.

There's the core team, which is extremely unfriendly to any kind of user-driven development of the language.

The whole reason Elm has been stuck in a niche when it had _huge_ hype around 2015 and everyone was sure it would be the "next big thing" on the front-end is that the developers have tried to keep full control of the language and keep shooting down proposals by users. It's either their way or the highway.

Re: Motivation – Keli Language

#59

Post by pjmlp »

fsloth wrote: post #41

The author lists F# as not IDE friendly. I find this categorization inaccurate. F# works great with Visual Studio, and especially well with intellisense. F# was designed as industrial language from the beginning, and high quality tooling is a large part of that. It might just be me, though, maybe other people use the language in ways that don't work that well there.

The only issue with F# is that it is a bit the black swan of Microsoft languages on .NET, so it doesn't get all the toys that C#, VB.NET and even C++/CLI get to play with.

Re: Motivation – Keli Language

#60

Post by endergen »

Off serious topic: Naming it after you girlfriend is a risky move, like getting a tattoo of her. Better get married and stay that way or the next partner is gonna be like: "wtf", you still working on your tribute to your ex programming language!?
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