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We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say

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Re: We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say

#51

.

But employers aren't in business to supply jobs, though, right? If the revenue and profits aren't there they can't print up their own money. EDIT: parent comment now empty initially said that companies should hire more people to help keep the economy going.

Why not? The Federal Reserve has been printing up their own money this year like there's no tommorow.

“To lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account they have with the Fed. So it’s much more akin, although not exactly the same, to printing money, than it is to borrowing.” --Former Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke

Employers could simply use the same Sorcery to supply digital jobs.

Re: We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say

#52
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Economists are as effective as astrologists at predicting the future. [citation needed] > I see this assured economic doom repeated so much without being questioned as anything but guaranteed I wonder where this incredible confidence is coming from? All the stock market gains are from big tech. Any other markets are flat or down. ( https://finviz.com/map.ashx?t=sec&st=ytd )

Quick Google search, nearly top result. Committing the sin of just reading the headline but man this is not hard to find evidence: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-28/economist... Or maybe? https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/economists-are-bad-at-p... "All of the gains are from big tech". All of the gains are always from some companies and all of the losses are always from others. This is just how th…

Economics isn't a sliced pie like that.

Re: We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say

#53
post #43
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How accurate were those same economists with their previous predictions? Were they more accurate than random people off the street?

Yes, they’re more accurate than random noise. Unfortunately like with any science which seems impactful on people’s lives, there is a lot of drama around people who try to become famous by making predictions and then failing. But the science itself is on firm ground.

Do you have actual data on prediction accuracy for economists versus non-economists? I'd be interested to read the research.

Re: We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say

#54

I trust this about as much as I trust my horoscope. There is a reason economists are scolded left and right, and it's because of ludicrous claims like this.

> There is a reason economists are scolded left and right, and it's because of ludicrous claims like this.

Ludicrous? Not at all. With evidence of people re-infecting themselves with different strains of coronavirus appearing (https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-reinfections-confirmed-in-...), we are looking at years of dealing with a deadly pandemic - which means that anything regarding travel and major events is out of the question for a long time, and that assumes that people religiously vaccine themselves (a bold assumption given the rise of conspiracy myths about "vaccines being used to implant mind control chips" and further absurd).

That in turn has many effects: economies like Croatia which are dependant on foreign tourism will be straight fucked, they will not survive without massive aid - while the EU may prop up at least their governments, the situation for other primarily tourist economies is even worse. The effect will also hit many industries and their supply chains - most obviously plane makers and car makers, both of which are huge cash cows and mega employers, as demand from industry (airplanes) and private consumers falls to rock bottom (people will hoard all money they can).

To make it worse, Chinese demand of its rising middle class has been the thing that propped both their and our economy - in fact, depending on manufacturer, anything from 24-40% of cars sold in 2018 went to China. And that's just cars. With the trade war looming to escalate (which is one of the few things of Trump that were an actually good idea) and that no matter if Biden or Trump wins, China won't prop up the world economy again, Europe is too busy to save its own butts, the US is too much in debt plus its social construct is falling apart left and right...

Re: We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say

#55
post #11

Economists are as effective as astrologists at predicting the future. For some reason otherwise smart people don't realize this? I think it's something about economists being associated with the university system. I see this assured economic doom repeated so much without being questioned as anything but guaranteed I wonder where this incredible confidence is coming from? We have literally no idea what 2021 holds for…

Economics is much worse than other disciplines as far as endemic conflicts of interest. The problem has more to do with companies writing up claims that serve their interests and getting economists to rubber stamp them without disclosures. Economists were hotly debating among themselves whether to adopt any kind of code of ethics less than 10 years ago. The insularity of other academic fields has its drawbacks, but the kind of behavior economists have broadly engaged in is much more representative of the business world than academia, and a result of their close ties to those interests.

Re: We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say

#58
post #19

Are we actually in a recession right now?

Considering the unemployment rate, yes. Considering the stock market, no.

I believe that a recession is technically defined in terms of economic output. Not sure what the current statistics are on that, though I'd be surprised if they didn't indicate a recession.

Re: We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say

#59
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick Google search, nearly top result. Committing the sin of just reading the headline but man this is not hard to find evidence: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-28/economist... Or maybe? https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/economists-are-bad-at-p... "All of the gains are from big tech". All of the gains are always from some companies and all of the losses are always from others. This is just how th…

Economics isn't a sliced pie like that.

I just used that as an expression, no special meaning intended.

Re: We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say

#60
post #19

Are we actually in a recession right now?

Considering the unemployment rate, yes. Considering the stock market, no.

It seems like we have 2 economies now. One that works, and one that doesn't. The one that works seems to be much more exclusive.
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