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Natural language benchmarks don’t measure AI models’ general knowledge well

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Re: Natural language benchmarks don’t measure AI models’ general knowledge well

#51
post #21
post #13

Second author here with a link to the arXiv paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2008.02637 Although I have to say, VentureBeat did much better than most media outlets I have seen writing about current research and what they write is not only accurate but also largely devoid of hype. Perhaps we actually managed to “keep the hype down” as we intended when writing this piece? I will check in on this post now and then if you ha…

Nice paper and important work. Given that nearest-neighbor outperforms on closed book, is it reasonable to suspect the model is doing NN itself internally (which would explain the good performance on close duplicates?) And if this is the case do you think training-time processing of data to attempt to move convert it to question/answer form data rather than raw QA would be a reasonable approach towards tackling this?

Hi, first author here.

> Given that nearest-neighbor outperforms on closed book, is it reasonable to suspect the model is doing NN itself internally (which would explain the good performance on close duplicates?)

I think this is definitely the case for the BART model. It is essentially acting as a QA-pair memorizer over the training data, and at test time, it just matches the question onto those seen at training time. Note that the T5-11B+SSM closed-book model was able to do a little better on NQ, so very large models with task-specific pretraining objectives do seem to do something slightly more interesting than just NN, but still really struggle in some settings.

> And if this is the case do you think training-time processing of data to attempt to move convert it to question/answer form data rather than raw QA would be a reasonable approach towards tackling this?

Great question! Converting sentences into a series of QA pairs is something we're really interested in. The T5-11B+SSM model we evaluate in the paper uses a special "Salient span masking" pretraining objective that does this to some extent (only mask words at pretraining time that are likely to be "answers" to factual questions), so in essence the pretraining task becomes pretty standard cloze-question answering, and they find that leads to better downstream results (https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.08910)

Re: Natural language benchmarks don’t measure AI models’ general knowledge well

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is unlikely to be qualitatively different from a neural network I'm sorry but this shows a profound misunderstanding of what a NN is, and what the brain is. There are no "neural network"s. The NN algorithm is a method for optimizing the parameters of a piece-wise linear regression model. These regression models have no homology to any brain structure and the process of producing them ("training") has no neurolog…

Causal. Imagine a video. Each frame is plotted in space, so instead of a sequence of 2d images, you have a cube. The z axis of the cube shows each frame of the video in turn. This is an equivalent representation to the representation that we are used to. We have just switched the time dimension for a physical dimension. What you are reverently calling causality, is only correlation along the z spacial dimension. In t…

So this is to repeat hume and mistake causal analysis as a kind of induction or inference.

It isnt.

Our bodies are the primary site of "causal analysis". Eg., when I touch the hot surface of a stove I do not infer that temperature is a cause of my hand being hot.

Such an inference, as the basis for our models of the world, would be -- as you/hume/etc. say -- deeply insufficient.

The operation of the world on our bodies is already laden with causal information. A hand striking a face does not just create a "painful sense impression"... rather the body encodes it as caused by the object you also saw.

It is the action of the world upon the body that is the bedrock of our causal model building. Scientific/inferential processes sit on top of that to disambiguate between possible distal causes.

A machine, as a person, given "mere data" cannot hope to do much.

Re: Natural language benchmarks don’t measure AI models’ general knowledge well

#53
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understanding of causality is very likely an emergent property. While extremely important, it's unlikely that we have some hard-coded low level architecture of causal inference in brains. It probably will just arise as a necessity of grounded understanding of the world.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The conditions for causal inference being possible are pretty clear and have to do with the intentional modification of the local environment. The intention to achieve some new environmental state, and your action to bring it about, is a dynamical activity that enables "deep" model building. Causal inference is not going to be some "module" of the brain... it requires a body. When…

I agree that causal inference certainly requires ability to interact with the environment. In do-calculus this follows basically from the definition of the "do" operator.

As other people already mentioned, the "do" operator does not need to be related to the physical human scale environment. Causal inference could be useful also in interacting with the internet or other virtual environments like games.

Additionally, even humans do not have intuitive understanding of physical reality outside of our evolutionary environment. Nobody is able to intuitively understand quantum mechanics or general theory of relativity. Our intuitions of causality can beak even in relatively mundane environment like low Earth orbit. For example, you can fire thrusters to push you towards an object and still miss that object. There are actual missions in LEO that failed do to this type of mistakes of elite test pilots employed by NASA.

Of course, you can use mathematical formalism to reason about unfamiliar environments, but no matter how much time you spend learning about multidimensional spaces you will not be able to imagine 4D space or a quantum wave. But nobody is claiming that we do not understand language like "spin of an electron" because we have never experienced what a spin of an electron is.

Now to get to my original point. My original point was that causal inference is not a basic building block of intelligence. Formalism like do-calculus or logic are too brittle to be a building block of intelligence. You need something that is robust to noise. Something that can consume a tensor of pixels and process it. Once you have a system that is able to deal with this type of inputs then you can strive to do something like do-calculus or logic on top of it. But my argument goes further. My guess is that ability to do formal reasoning will emerge from the need to carry out complex tasks. Nobody will intentionally program models to do logic or do-calculus. Ability to do it will arise in models as a combination of the necessity of solving complex tasks and clever training techniques as it did trough evolutionary process in humans.

PS.

> So no matter how much you are able to reproduce these patterns, they contain no content. The content is in the reader.

To me this type of assertions do not contain any content.

"The content is in the reader." I don't understand that at all. Maybe I'm just a Chinese room :) .

Re: Natural language benchmarks don’t measure AI models’ general knowledge well

#54
post #10

The article doesn't give examples, but the paper does. Here are a few examples of question overlap, for context. Test Question: who plays max voice in a goofy movie Train Question: who does max voice in a goofy movie Answer: Jason Marsden Test Question: when will the 2018 oscar nominations be announced Train Question: when are the oscar nominations for 2018 announced Answer: January 23 2018 Test Question: who has sco…

Hi, First author here.

Thanks for the comment and for adding examples, and for your nuanced comments of the answer overlap split.

My position is that these datasets are still useful for QA, but what was lacking was an analysis of how easy/hard the questions in them were, and what kind of modelling was needed to do well. These overlap phenomena are less like "bugs" maybe, but more like poorly understood features.

We need models that can accurately recall QA pairs they have seen before, so being able to score well on "memorizable" QA pairs is still important to do well, but we also want models that can do more than that. One single accuracy number on a leaderboard cannot capture all the behavioural information we need to properly understand the capabilities of these models.

Re: Natural language benchmarks don’t measure AI models’ general knowledge well

#55
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The conditions for causal inference being possible are pretty clear and have to do with the intentional modification of the local environment. The intention to achieve some new environmental state, and your action to bring it about, is a dynamical activity that enables "deep" model building. Causal inference is not going to be some "module" of the brain... it requires a body. When…

I agree that causal inference certainly requires ability to interact with the environment. In do-calculus this follows basically from the definition of the "do" operator. As other people already mentioned, the "do" operator does not need to be related to the physical human scale environment. Causal inference could be useful also in interacting with the internet or other virtual environments like games. Additionally,…

Approximately, the semantics of natural language are concepts. Concepts in this sense are deep bodily-inferential-causal models.

If I say, "No! The glass is under the desk" you can immediately: find the glass, reason about why you havent previously found it, ask for the glass to be filled, ask for the glass to be handed to you, report on whether you like where the glass is..

You could say, "Why is the glass on the floor!?" angrily.

And by doing so communicate an expectation about where glasses ordinarily are, express a desire-frustration, express a confusion over the intentions of others..

The information contained in "No! The glass is under the desk" is VAST.

It is vast because our understanding of the world is vast. Not because the sentence as a lot of letters. Not because the words in it occur in a certain frequency. Nothing about the sentence itself is vast. It is profoundly shallow.

Intelligence is this vastness. Intelligence is moving effortlessly from "why" to "how" to "when" to "what" across domains, across hypothetical/counterfactual scenarious, across intentions/expectations.

This vastness is laden in animal minds, even, essentially constitutive of animal minds. And it cannot be found in "data".

It is grown by the complex biophysical process of learning, which requires a deep (& playful) interaction with the environment. The environment grows your capacities as you play with it.

Re: Natural language benchmarks don’t measure AI models’ general knowledge well

#56
post #31
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Specifically the way human brain interacts with environment, the same way any AGI will need to sense and react to an environment, the more real the better. An interesting example would be if the NN learns something from a book, also fed it with the all the critique on that book ( the environment reaction ). So it can possibly learn from a human what is good or bad in that book, etc. Then both AI and humans can s…

> An interesting example would be if the NN learns something from a book, also fed it with the all the critique on that book ( the environment reaction ). But isn't that exactly what has been done with GPT-3? AFAIK it has been trained with both facts (wikipedia and such) and web-crawled text content that contains both content and critique of content (book reviews, movie reviews etc.)?

I know that, but does the network perceive the critique as environmental reaction? It means if it can distinguish between them.

Putting them in the same basket not sure if it helps.

Re: Natural language benchmarks don’t measure AI models’ general knowledge well

#57
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is interesting but seems to conflate two separate though related areas. The need for a body arises from the embodied cognition school of AI which suggests that intelligence is fundamentally embodied, hence the need for a robot equivalent to a body for truly understanding language. However this does not necessarily have to be related to causality, and counterfactual statements about a causal model. The ma…

I'm conflating them because they are deeply connected. Causal analysis can be performed, via Pearl, on datasets collected for causal analysis. You still need some mechanism to collect the data, ie., the scientist. This requires solving the "relevance" (/framing) problem -- which, in my view, cannot be solved under a congitivist (/computational) theory of mind. "Data" which is relevant to a causal hypothesis isn't sel…

>Causal analysis can be performed, via Pearl, on datasets collected for causal analysis.

There's a lot of past and current work on causal inference on observational data too.

Re: Natural language benchmarks don’t measure AI models’ general knowledge well

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It shouldn't be that hard to imagine. If the objective is to predict human text, at some point the best way to predict text is to capture the kinds of knowledge that humans know and use in text generation. Human knowledge is a strong prior for human text generation, and so it shouldn't be surprising that for a large model its parameters would end up in a portion of parameter space that encodes some human knowledge.

By this token, the best way to learn Mandarin would be to start looking at text in Mandarin and trying to assign it meaning. While it theoretically can work, it is vastly more difficult than trying to relate it to a previously learned model. In fact, it is so difficult that we have never successfully understood a lost human language this way (though with the caveat that we don't have the huge corpus of text that GPT-…

No, I said the best way to learn to predict human text is to capture human knowledge. I did not say how best to capture human knowledge. Obviously doing gradient descent over a huge text corpus is massively inefficient for a human. Whether its the best way for a machine to learn it is another matter. After all, the amount of data that humans experience through their senses during formative years, as well as the "computational work" that went into evolving human brain architectures surely dwarfs GPT-3's training regime.

Re: Natural language benchmarks don’t measure AI models’ general knowledge well

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It amazes me people think their brain works differently. It's pretty close to believing in body/mind dualism, the only thing in neuroscience more outdated than Freud. Your brain works within the same laws of physics as the outside world. We don't know how the brain works exactly. But once we understand it, it is unlikely to be qualitatively different from a neural network. On the other side of the equation, the emerg…

As another poster wrote, the main problem is not the neural network itself, it is the training set, and very likely the training algorithm as well. My claim is that working knowledge of the world is simply not encoded in human text. All human text (and speech) presupposes a certain model of the world that is learned from experiencing the world, likely based on a model that itself is partially pre-trained by evolution…

If a text corpus correlates with human knowledge (your "presupposes a certain model of the world"), then it necessarily encodes the portions of the knowledge it correlates with. That is, correlations drive the search of model parameters that explain the correlations. The stronger or more numerous the correlations, the more accurate a model can be computed. But the search space informed by this network of correlations is much more restricted than a naive brute force search, thus the correlations provide information about, i.e. encodes, the correct model.

Re: Natural language benchmarks don’t measure AI models’ general knowledge well

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Causal. Imagine a video. Each frame is plotted in space, so instead of a sequence of 2d images, you have a cube. The z axis of the cube shows each frame of the video in turn. This is an equivalent representation to the representation that we are used to. We have just switched the time dimension for a physical dimension. What you are reverently calling causality, is only correlation along the z spacial dimension. In t…

So this is to repeat hume and mistake causal analysis as a kind of induction or inference. It isnt. Our bodies are the primary site of "causal analysis". Eg., when I touch the hot surface of a stove I do not infer that temperature is a cause of my hand being hot. Such an inference, as the basis for our models of the world, would be -- as you/hume/etc. say -- deeply insufficient. The operation of the world on our bodi…

None of this explains how modelling time sequences of events does not sufficiently approximate the kind of causal knowledge you mention.
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