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Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

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Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#51

Post by chromedev »

metalgearsolid3 wrote: post #46

This should be an unpopular opinion but I kind of respected Apple's previous stance, and I'm in a way a bit disappointed they've backed down, but I think they've needed to because they are moving too quickly. 5 years from now we'll likely see Apple Silicon powering Apple's entire new product lineup, and Swift developers will be deploying software across the entire product lineup with minimal effort. Swift is both qui…

Google allows you to install apps outside the app store and Android is open source

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#52

Post by inlined »

userbinator wrote: post #44
7tsfmCAusrQ wrote: post #36

As an app developer myself, with apps on both the Google Play Store and the App Store with over 250K monthly active users, I have become so frustrated with Apple's arbitrary and capricious enforcement of its App Store regulations, its bullying and coercion of developers, its extortionate fees, and its monopolistic anti-competitive practices, that I have stopped updating my apps on the App Store. I wonder how many oth…

I'd like to see regulation that forces Apple and Google to allow any and all app stores on their devices, and the process of installing apps through those stores must be, by law, equally easy and straightforward as through their own stores (i.e., no security warnings or other jank). I'm pretty sure that will have massive opposition, because they are deathly scared of opening their devices back to the general-purpose…

I think it’ll be interesting if Apple loses control of the App Store but still combats anti-practices through evolution of the APIs. It could become a consumer win.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#53

Post by inlined »

social_quotient wrote: post #4

Makes me think that at some point showing a restaurant menu with prices is soon going to get the ire of Apple for suggesting an offline monetization that they aren’t a part of.

Apple doesn’t monetize physical goods sold in apps. It’s how an Amazon or Costco app is possible

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#54

Post by mythz »

threeseed wrote: post #9
g_p wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post here exemplifies why apple's behaviour is so problematic - you're left trying to adhere to a set of rules that even Apple can't manage to enforce consistently and correctly, facing the risk of having to pay an unexpected 30% tax on sales (and effectively have to raise prices accordingly). Hopefully this logic is enough to get Apple in bother during their antitrust suits and Investigations - it seems quite i…

It is not a tax on sales. It is the cost of using their channel to market. If you host the app yourself on your website then how are people going to discover it. For most developers they would buy ads or invest in content or influencer marketing. Those marketing costs are your channel to market and obviously aren't a tax. It's hilarious watching so many people on HN discuss this topic who are completely naive and ign…

The majority of the cost is simply for being able to participate in their market of 1B+ credit cards which lets ISV's frictionlessly sell Apps direct to consumers globally, it's not for the direct tangible benefits the App Store otherwise they wouldn't outlaw competing services that would handle the same services for a reduced royalty %.

Although what's not being discussed are negative consequences of allowing multiple App stores vs Apple's single unified curated UX. The UX for searching, purchasing, managing payments/subscriptions would be more fragmented & confusing. Being able to bypass curation by installing Apps from another App store which could install malware, scams, privacy violating & other undesirable Apps would hurt Apple's brand as a simple, secure & safe platform parents are confident in using themselves & giving to their kids (which for example allows us to manage/disable IAP's).

At 2M+ Apps your App isn't going to magically appear in front of all consumer devices, you still have to do the majority of the marketing yourself, unless you're lucky enough to be listed in editor picks or some curated list, but you're not paying for exposure or discoverability as the % royalty is the same regardless.

With that said 30% seems fair & standard across most platforms [1]. I don't really understand why 30% is unfair for iOS which has created the most lucrative & accessible market for ISV's. It's simply a cost of participating in a market. Just like you don't get free shelf life in shops (virtual or physical) if you make a product, free access to Game consoles if you make a game, free top search placement if you make a website, etc.

[1] https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut...

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#55

Post by makecheck »

What ultimately made me pull out of the Mac App Store was the fact that publishing with Apple meant “app with customizations to accommodate stupid rules”, and $EVERYWHERE_ELSE meant “upload and be done with it”. If you haven’t checked lately, the Mac App Store is a pathetic ghost town for the most part.

On iOS I guarantee that if the App Store had even one alternative, many apps would do the same and bail on Apple, and you’d see a similar ghost store.

Also, since Apple loves to compare its grand scheme to how physical stores used to behave, let’s examine that: there isn’t a single physical store that demands to have complete control over everything in the boxes on their shelves. If you open a product box and it contains a card with information, such as a link to the company web site or other stuff, then that’s what you get. If apps followed this sane model, Apple would just let apps put whatever they want “in the box”, including sensible things like INFORMATION about account sign-ups and other products, and links.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#56

Post by tempsolution »

userbinator wrote: post #44
7tsfmCAusrQ wrote: post #36

As an app developer myself, with apps on both the Google Play Store and the App Store with over 250K monthly active users, I have become so frustrated with Apple's arbitrary and capricious enforcement of its App Store regulations, its bullying and coercion of developers, its extortionate fees, and its monopolistic anti-competitive practices, that I have stopped updating my apps on the App Store. I wonder how many oth…

I'd like to see regulation that forces Apple and Google to allow any and all app stores on their devices, and the process of installing apps through those stores must be, by law, equally easy and straightforward as through their own stores (i.e., no security warnings or other jank). I'm pretty sure that will have massive opposition, because they are deathly scared of opening their devices back to the general-purpose…

> no security warnings or other jank

This will hopefully never happen. A security warning is a must. The average user has no clue what they are even doing and don't understand the risks they are accepting. A security warning might just be clicked away, but at least you were warned.

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#57

Post by Google234 »

commoner wrote: post #49
madeofpalk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at least Apple doesn't take a cut from restaurants for Apple Pay.

Apple collects 0.15% of all credit card transactions made through Apple Pay for US-based cards. The percentage is higher for the Apple Card, of course. https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-loses-key-mobile-payment... https://venturebeat.com/2018/05/10/apple-pay-credit-card-is-...

They can’t take 0, the service isn’t freee to develop

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#58

Post by Google234 »

chromedev wrote: post #51
metalgearsolid3 wrote: post #46

This should be an unpopular opinion but I kind of respected Apple's previous stance, and I'm in a way a bit disappointed they've backed down, but I think they've needed to because they are moving too quickly. 5 years from now we'll likely see Apple Silicon powering Apple's entire new product lineup, and Swift developers will be deploying software across the entire product lineup with minimal effort. Swift is both qui…

Google allows you to install apps outside the app store and Android is open source

People can use google then. The vast majority of people around the world use android

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#59

Post by mqus »

7tsfmCAusrQ wrote: post #36

As an app developer myself, with apps on both the Google Play Store and the App Store with over 250K monthly active users, I have become so frustrated with Apple's arbitrary and capricious enforcement of its App Store regulations, its bullying and coercion of developers, its extortionate fees, and its monopolistic anti-competitive practices, that I have stopped updating my apps on the App Store. I wonder how many oth…

>I'd like to see regulation that forces Apple and Google to allow any and all app stores on their devices, and the process of installing apps through those stores must be, by law, equally easy and straightforward as through their own stores (i.e., no security warnings or other jank). The law should make illegal restricting developers to any specific payment processor(s), too.

Not the same kind of regulation you describe, but still one that may solve a big chunk of your issues was covered here roughly a month ago[1], In which the EU plans to make those kinds of platforms more transparent, especially concerning bans and sudden refusals. But I see how that may not go far enough.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23841409

Re: Apple apologizes to WordPress, won’t force the free app to add purchases

#60

Post by adventured »

7tsfmCAusrQ wrote: post #36

As an app developer myself, with apps on both the Google Play Store and the App Store with over 250K monthly active users, I have become so frustrated with Apple's arbitrary and capricious enforcement of its App Store regulations, its bullying and coercion of developers, its extortionate fees, and its monopolistic anti-competitive practices, that I have stopped updating my apps on the App Store. I wonder how many oth…

> its extortionate fees

Their fees are not so high as to be extortionate. They're not close to being deserving of that hyperbolic label.

The Apple and Google fees are a dramatic improvement over the model that they gradually replaced over the past decade.

Want to get on a retail shelf? Nope, you can't. One in a zillion odds you find someone to publish your box to retail - congratulations, now you get to keep less than 20% of the sale price.

If Apple's fees were 1/2 what they are, developers would be saying exactly the same thing about them. That's because the fees will always be too high unless they're close to zero, and in that scenario Apple is carrying an unfair burden.

And if you forcibly open up more app store competition, and then Apple decides to drop their fees below other competitors, it'll kill the store competition and Apple can sustain that indefinitely thanks to their device margins. They don't need to make money on the market. Then everyone will bitch about that being unfair competition, despite Apple serving up the low fees that were demanded. And on the complaining will go forever until we have a hyper regulated market with pricing set by bureaucrats. Why? Because Apple is really big, that's the real reason why. People hate big corporations almost universally, Apple is in the can do no right group; no matter what they do, a lot of people will bitch about their choices. The end result will be massive, stifling regulation, which everyone will then bitch about the consequences of.

> now I actually make more on Android. The Google Play review process is a breeze compared to Apple's laborious and stifling rules (although it is not perfect either by any means), and at some point, it's just not worth the hassle.

You should be making more on Android, it's a larger market. It's good that that former imbalance has corrected itself. Fortunately you're not entitled to an easy review process. It's a great thing that Apple adds friction to their store. It's their market, they should be able to set the rules. If it's not worth the hassle, then it's not worth the hassle, you've solved your own problem: give up on the Apple store.

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