How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France • Hacker News Board

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#51

Post by throwaway13337 » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:09 AM UTC

victor106 wrote: post #34

From what a few of my colleagues told me: France is very racist. Apparently this is true in most of Europe. Everything looks okay on the surface but they are deep racial undertones. They tell me that believe it or not America is the one of the least racist countries. It does not mean there’s no racism in America just that it’s lesser. It’s easy for immigrants to assimilate into society in America than most places in…

My experience in Lille, France would concur with that. Never had I seen such blatant racism as I did when I went out for the night with another white (swede) and a black friend.

The black friend was not allowed in a club that we were and had two instances I saw in different bars of overt racial comments from strangers in the short time we were drinking together. It was weird.

He came back to the next day with a beat up face and a story of some horrible events that unfolded shortly after I'd went to bed.

This guy was dressed like us and in school to be a lawyer. He wasn't loud or anything you might think that might draw attention to him other than his skin color.

Growing up in the states and living in a few cities in Europe and in traveling, I'd never seen anything like this in my life.

N=1 and all that but it was truly bizarre.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#52

Post by lm28469 » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:11 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #12

belzebalex wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, as a French I can only completely agree. The amount of paperwork is just absurd. For instance, when you create a company, you have to pay a separate fee (~200eur) to a private "official journal" to publish the fact that you're creating a company. That's just plain racket, and that kind of things is everywhere. France is dying, because France can't have a private sector because of its regulations. The fun part i…

As the other commenter says, and I'll add: I think French people love complaining while continuing on their bubble A lot of countries have more regulations, but if you complain about every one of them and take it as an obstacle, yeah, really, nothing is going to come out of it. France is not, by a long shot, the most bureaucratic country in the world. Wow 200eur to open a company? How much does that compare to, I don…

I'm French, French people are blind and most of them have no idea how easy it is to live in France compared to basically any other countries in the world. I guess it's a lack of perspective, anyone who spent any amount of time in eastern europe or in the US (places which aren't even that bad to begin with) would instantly see how lucky they are to live in France.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#53

Post by realusername » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:11 AM UTC

victor106 wrote: post #34

From what a few of my colleagues told me: France is very racist. Apparently this is true in most of Europe. Everything looks okay on the surface but they are deep racial undertones. They tell me that believe it or not America is the one of the least racist countries. It does not mean there’s no racism in America just that it’s lesser. It’s easy for immigrants to assimilate into society in America than most places in…

I would say the opposite after done some traveling, it's honestly one of the best countries when it comes to racism. There are very very few countries in the world where you can just arrive there and be treated as local from day 1, even in Europe.

It's just focused strongly on integration instead of being focused on multiculturalism like in the anglosphere. And you really need to understand that because US values don't apply.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#54

Post by harha » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:14 AM UTC

doukdouk wrote: post #41

julienfr112 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, default rates are quite high in France, but there are also subsides : JEI (jeune entreprise innovante), CIR (credit impot recherche) and CII (crédit impot innovation) and surrely others that can give you back a huge part of the taxes you pay. It's a PITA to fill, it keeps civil servants busy but hey, it can bring you tax and cotisations sociales (retirement / health) very low !!

All this feels so wasteful, especially the CIR and formerly the CICE. Instead of having low taxes, you have nominally high taxes and a bazillion paperwork-heavy to make them low. Might as well just make them low in the first place.

I like the way Singapore keeps it simple by having tax exemptions and lower rates for the first $ X of income (and overall lower tax than most places in Europe), this is easy to work with and allows you to reinvest in ways you see fit rather than having to deal with a bunch of other entities from advisors to government agencies that all have their own agenda.

Edit: corporate income that is.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#55

Post by belzebalex » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:17 AM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #52

raverbashing wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the other commenter says, and I'll add: I think French people love complaining while continuing on their bubble A lot of countries have more regulations, but if you complain about every one of them and take it as an obstacle, yeah, really, nothing is going to come out of it. France is not, by a long shot, the most bureaucratic country in the world. Wow 200eur to open a company? How much does that compare to, I don…

I'm French, French people are blind and most of them have no idea how easy it is to live in France compared to basically any other countries in the world. I guess it's a lack of perspective, anyone who spent any amount of time in eastern europe or in the US (places which aren't even that bad to begin with) would instantly see how lucky they are to live in France.

I agree with some of that. But we can only live like that in the short term. We're currently China-sponsored: just look at the size of our debt! The 2021 budget is half funded by debt! One day will come when we'll have to make aggressive cuts in our way of life because France won't produce anything anymore.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#56

Post by Juliate » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:18 AM UTC

belzebalex wrote: post #9

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

Yeah, as a French I can only completely agree. The amount of paperwork is just absurd. For instance, when you create a company, you have to pay a separate fee (~200eur) to a private "official journal" to publish the fact that you're creating a company. That's just plain racket, and that kind of things is everywhere. France is dying, because France can't have a private sector because of its regulations. The fun part i…

Take business creation & administration. The climate now in France for that is incommensurably better now than it was 20 years ago. The paperwork, the administrative va-et-vient, the relations with the state, insurances, banks, profesionnal networks & helpers, are way faster and leaner now.

And even the startup culture itself, or the social consideration of pursuing one venture, is of course not the same as in the US or in Germany, but it was pretty much non-existent just 15 years ago, compared to what it is now. It's not perfect, because it's young still, but it's here now.

About regulation, per se, it's not a bad thing.

About education... you don't get to judge a system by a single metric, especially not one that pertains only to a very small sample. Not saying it's good/bad/better/worse.

You're 18yo, you have plenty of energy and headroom to discover and create anything, anywhere; what matters is the networks with which you will work, wherever they are.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#57

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:20 AM UTC

tasogare wrote: post #46

victor106 wrote: post #34

From what a few of my colleagues told me: France is very racist. Apparently this is true in most of Europe. Everything looks okay on the surface but they are deep racial undertones. They tell me that believe it or not America is the one of the least racist countries. It does not mean there’s no racism in America just that it’s lesser. It’s easy for immigrants to assimilate into society in America than most places in…

> France is very racist Literally the biggest lie I read here for a long time. Yeah France is so racist that 20% of the population is of foreign non-white ancestry, nationality is easy to get (notably got automatic if botn on national soil), no welfare programs discriminates on nationality basis, illegal aliens are rarely expelled (being sentenced is not more automatic ground for it), there is laws forbidding critici…

[deleted]

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#58

Post by realusername » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:21 AM UTC

ttwy2020 wrote: post #42

victor106 wrote: post #34

From what a few of my colleagues told me: France is very racist. Apparently this is true in most of Europe. Everything looks okay on the surface but they are deep racial undertones. They tell me that believe it or not America is the one of the least racist countries. It does not mean there’s no racism in America just that it’s lesser. It’s easy for immigrants to assimilate into society in America than most places in…

As an immigrant who has been living in France (Paris) for 7 years, I didn't personally experience any racism, on the contrary, my collegues, neighbours and strangers, all treat me respectfully as I would treat them. On the other hand, my wife, being a Hijabi, did experience it in subtle ways (if we can call it racism): sometimes not-so-friendly gazes from strangers, she can not go to the public swimpool because burki…

> (the reason was not always disclosed, but some recruiters did explicitly tell her that it was because of her Hijab). Which is different from the UK and other European countries from what I have been told.

That's because the French culture does not work on the same basis as the UK and northern european countries. The french society strongly goes towards integration and not multiculturalism.

It has a lot of deep consequences in the society, starting that people expect you to identify and behave as French, regardless of your background, skin color or anything else.

This means you will really be treated as a local from day one and just a small racist minority will really care about your background. But it also means as a double edged sword that if people perceive that you reject this identity, they will think that you are rejecting the society and will react negatively.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#59

Post by lm28469 » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:25 AM UTC

belzebalex wrote: post #55

lm28469 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm French, French people are blind and most of them have no idea how easy it is to live in France compared to basically any other countries in the world. I guess it's a lack of perspective, anyone who spent any amount of time in eastern europe or in the US (places which aren't even that bad to begin with) would instantly see how lucky they are to live in France.

I agree with some of that. But we can only live like that in the short term. We're currently China-sponsored: just look at the size of our debt! The 2021 budget is half funded by debt! One day will come when we'll have to make aggressive cuts in our way of life because France won't produce anything anymore.

Isn't it the same for most countries though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_...

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#60

Post by jclos » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:30 AM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #52

raverbashing wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the other commenter says, and I'll add: I think French people love complaining while continuing on their bubble A lot of countries have more regulations, but if you complain about every one of them and take it as an obstacle, yeah, really, nothing is going to come out of it. France is not, by a long shot, the most bureaucratic country in the world. Wow 200eur to open a company? How much does that compare to, I don…

I'm French, French people are blind and most of them have no idea how easy it is to live in France compared to basically any other countries in the world. I guess it's a lack of perspective, anyone who spent any amount of time in eastern europe or in the US (places which aren't even that bad to begin with) would instantly see how lucky they are to live in France.

I hope you do realise that life is so easy because we are always complaining and not in spite of it. Worker rights and social safety nets did not magically appear out of thin air.