My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I • Hacker News Board

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#51

Post by Barrin92 » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

function_seven wrote: post #26

I'm amazed how dismissive all the comments are here. I read the article and it seems totally normal for a little kid not to be able to do "school" on a laptop. Kindergarten is so much different than later years of schooling. It's not about lectures and subjects, or homework and tests. It's about much more fundamental lessons, interspersed with creativity, socialization, and learning to be separated from your parents.…

I got similarly dismissive comments once when I pointed to the importance of PE for child development, not just physically but also social dynamics and team aspects, confidence building and so on.

HN crowd is a tough audience when it comes to adolescent socialisation, not everyone benefits from sitting in front of a computer from a young age.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#52

Post by actfrench » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

jdmoreira wrote: post #38

The problem is not so much that kids can’t handle virtual education as much as we not being able to care for our kids because we have a jobs. Think about it... Do you think it’s normal for a human child to be institutionalized just because his/her parents are working? Where is their hunter-gatherer band when your kids need it? Nothing about 2020 nuclear family society is normal for a human child. Nothing at all.

Exactly. Academic education (subject mastery and developing tools to learn), childcare (being safe and happy and engaged while parents are working) and social learning (making friends, learning to work/collaborate with a group) are generally bundled together as one concept in a very weird way. As families, communities and as a nation, we need to strive to provide enriching childcare to our kids, great social experiences and quality education to them. Sometimes these things happen at the same time, but they don't have to. And sometimes they are best addressed separately. If we start thinking and addressing them individually, we might find ways to do all of them better.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#53

Post by danShumway » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

double0jimb0 wrote: post #22

dang wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

While I 100% agree with the intent of the HN guideline, there are times when calling out crazy as crazy is fully warranted. I believe this is one of those cases. I don’t believe parent comment was a “shallow dismissal”, it was an accurate and “deep” dismissal.

Purely from my own perspective, if this is deep then I'd like to see a 'deeper' dismissal in that case. I read the first 4 paragraphs, and I didn't see anything that warranted the word 'crazy'.

Developmental problems? Maybe, although I'd honestly like to see some stronger evidence from people claiming that. Non-typical learning styles? Maybe? But we're talking about a 5 year old, temper tantrums are completely normal.

A lot of commenters here arguing fiercely that there's something deeply wrong with a toddler who's used to being in a physical space with physical people within a specialized environment, having a different reaction to being sat in front of a static screen for an extended period of time in a home setting.

A lot of commenters dismissing the idea that virtual meetings might be more draining or difficult for some people, which seems very... I'm surprised to see that attitude on HN of all places, we should know better than anyone that different people deal with isolation and physical proximity in different ways.

If the original poster can point to specific language that makes them think something is wrong with the parent or child, then they should point to that language. I think it's inappropriate and shallow to throw around labels like 'crazy' just because a child is misbehaving.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#54

Post by actfrench » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

Here's a crazy idea: What if we raised our children to process their difficult emotions instead of suppress them and stay active and move freely while working and studying (instead of sitting in a chair at a desk)

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#55

Post by romwell » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

supercanuck wrote: post #6

mc32 wrote: post #4

If remote learning is leaving a lot to be desired where kids aren’t really getting much benefit academically and it’s stressing people out, is there a possibility to pause education for a year and resume a year from now? Now, I know there is no guarantee there will be an effective vaccine, but if not we may learn enough whether heard immunity is enough by then. Graduating a year later for everyone from K- to-be-senio…

Sure, but don’t expect other people to follow suit. They will hire private teachers and remote home school to get ahead.

"Get ahead" in what sense?

Yay, now some 7-year-olds will be just as educated as some other 8-year-olds, and will be able to skip a grade when school resumes. So.. what?

Also, why don't we imagine something better than just keeping kids at home all day.

Having a year devoted to outdoor activities instead of formal education would be wonderful for everyone, including the teachers (who can still have work), parents (who can get some time away from the kids), and, most importantly, the kids (who are effectively under house arrest until they turn 12).

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#56

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

dpcan wrote: post #44

function_seven wrote: post #26

I'm amazed how dismissive all the comments are here. I read the article and it seems totally normal for a little kid not to be able to do "school" on a laptop. Kindergarten is so much different than later years of schooling. It's not about lectures and subjects, or homework and tests. It's about much more fundamental lessons, interspersed with creativity, socialization, and learning to be separated from your parents.…

And yet, with a little time, patience, and dedication from parents, all children can be taught to be respectful, focus, and learn the way we need them to learn during a strange and complicated time. This world is full of can't can't can't. Everywhere we turn, if there's an inconvenience involved. If we have to do something boring. If it won't be fun. If it's hard work..... we can't do it. It can't be done. I wish we…

[deleted]

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#57

Post by mumblemumble » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

dpcan wrote: post #44

function_seven wrote: post #26

I'm amazed how dismissive all the comments are here. I read the article and it seems totally normal for a little kid not to be able to do "school" on a laptop. Kindergarten is so much different than later years of schooling. It's not about lectures and subjects, or homework and tests. It's about much more fundamental lessons, interspersed with creativity, socialization, and learning to be separated from your parents.…

And yet, with a little time, patience, and dedication from parents, all children can be taught to be respectful, focus, and learn the way we need them to learn during a strange and complicated time. This world is full of can't can't can't. Everywhere we turn, if there's an inconvenience involved. If we have to do something boring. If it won't be fun. If it's hard work..... we can't do it. It can't be done. I wish we…

If, by "a little time", you mean a few years, until they're psychologically developed enough that you can expect this of them.

"The way we need them to learn" strikes me as a very telling choice of words. This is a moment where we need to be meeting their needs, not just molding them to our expectations.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#58

Post by dr-detroit » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

supergeek133 wrote: post #12

I read it and ended being not sure what it was about. Unless you're going to end with a stance of "but we'll get through it because of COIVD" or "we should go back to school no matter what" I'm a little lost of the point here. Nobody is "doing this" to you, it's what we all have to do. Yes it impacts everyone different, but what's the message?

Its a subtle threat that there will be hell to pay if this Brooklyn 5 year old doesn't get on an elite prep school track due to annoying public health needs.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#59

Post by supergeek133 » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

function_seven wrote: post #26

I'm amazed how dismissive all the comments are here. I read the article and it seems totally normal for a little kid not to be able to do "school" on a laptop. Kindergarten is so much different than later years of schooling. It's not about lectures and subjects, or homework and tests. It's about much more fundamental lessons, interspersed with creativity, socialization, and learning to be separated from your parents.…

I understand dealing with children, I'm not being dismissive (at least I don't think I am) of that.

I'm confused why this was written or published. There is no "point".

Yes, it's very hard to keep adults much less kids cooped up in a house all day. Especially for 6+ months. But, what else are we supposed to do?

This is just a paid, public gripe that a lot of people can relate with, but what purpose does it serve? There isn't an alternative unless the author is pushing for schools to open regardless of COVID, which I doubt.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#60

Post by ghaff » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 7:43 PM UTC

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #40

All of these comments make me think HN has never interacted with a 5 year old. Adults are barely able to make it through a day of Zoom meetings without feeling drained, how do you expect an almost toddler to react when forced to sit in front of a screen? The only reasons adults can do it is years and years of learning impulse controls and suppression of bad emotions for everyone's good. A 5 year old does not have the…

I certainly can't really deal with all-day conferences over video. I dip in and out. And I would observe that what many tech events are doing is spreading things out over more days with shorter windows per day. If a one-week workshop at MIT felt it needed to transition to shorter sessions over 3 weeks for video, that just might say something about online learning for kids.