Facebook open sources its servers and data centers • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook open sources its servers and data centers

#51

Post by wtallis » Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 9:07 PM UTC

steevdave wrote: post #43

wmf wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "sorry ARM" stuff is mostly just the media's need to turn every story into a horse race. But there is some technical detail here: Facebook said they're not ever willing to use 32-bit and ARM won't have 64-bit for years. Also notice that Facebook's servers are "conventional" 2-socket with lots of DIMM slots, not 1-socket "microservers".

Fwiw, Freescale has a 64bit ppc processor now... Either way though, until you're able to just drop an ARM processor into a "commodity" motherboard, it won't really see widespread use, aside from cell phones, and other mobile devices. There is also the fact that ARM processors all seem to have the graphics card embedded in the chip.

Current ARM SoCs have all been built for embedded applications, which is why they integrate things like GPUs and radios.

The next-generation high end ARM core, the Cortex A15, will be the first one that's intended to be suitable for server use: they've added virtualization support, PAE for up to 1TB of RAM, and cache coherency to their bus to support SMP. The server-oriented implementations will be quad-core 2.5Ghz chips, of which you would be able to put at least 4 on a motherboard like this. When they start hitting the market next year, they'll probably all but kill the market for Intel Atom-based servers.

Re: Facebook open sources its servers and data centers

#52

Post by razzmataz » Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 9:09 PM UTC

wmf wrote: post #41

corin_ wrote: post #24

Sorry ARM. Have ARM actually done more than announce that they will be moving into servers? If they have then I missed the announcement. Either way, seems like a fairly stupid dig at ARM, can't really expect companies like Facebook to have moved onto ARM servers this quickly, even if it is the direction they intend to go in.

This "sorry ARM" stuff is mostly just the media's need to turn every story into a horse race. But there is some technical detail here: Facebook said they're not ever willing to use 32-bit and ARM won't have 64-bit for years. Also notice that Facebook's servers are "conventional" 2-socket with lots of DIMM slots, not 1-socket "microservers".

I am curious if they would ever look into loongson. It's 64bit and fairly power efficient.

Re: Facebook open sources its servers and data centers

#53

Post by jemfinch » Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 9:12 PM UTC

kragen wrote: post #12

flyt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a response to Greenpeace, this is a response to the real costs that it takes to run compute infrastructure at the scale of Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc. If a datacenter can run at 1.07 PUE (as Facebook's new datacenter does), then it directly translates to massive power cost savings. Environmental efficiency just comes along with it.

Okay, but why does it benefit Facebook's bottom line (and Google's!) to open-source that stuff? Wouldn't they be better off if their competitors had to pay those higher costs? It's not as if they have substantial computation-service providers they're buying from, or data-center-oriented companies they're selling to.

Releasing information about this helps others better compete with Facebook's competitors while not diminishing the value of Facebook's core asset at all.

Re: Facebook open sources its servers and data centers

#54

Post by ignifero » Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 9:21 PM UTC

Shall we expect Google, Amazon, Microsoft et. al. to start posting their energy efficiency stats from tomorrow?

Re: Facebook open sources its servers and data centers

#55

Post by wmf » Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 9:28 PM UTC

ignifero wrote: post #54

Shall we expect Google, Amazon, Microsoft et. al. to start posting their energy efficiency stats from tomorrow?

Way ahead of you: http://www.google.com/corporate/datacenter/efficiency-measur...

Re: Facebook open sources its servers and data centers

#56

Post by delinka » Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 9:44 PM UTC

tallanvor wrote: post #11

I'm sure they've done a lot of tests, but running servers in an environment with 65% humidity just doesn't sound good for them.

A certain amount of humidity helps to prevent issues with static electricity. And unless you're pouring water directly across electrical components, there's really not a problem.

Re: Facebook open sources its servers and data centers

#57

Post by Swannie » Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 9:46 PM UTC

iloveponies wrote: post #21

One thing I've found interesting: The decision to have batteries not per server like Google, or per data centre, but per group of racks.

Pretty standard in telecoms. Never quite understood why Google went per server.

Re: Facebook open sources its servers and data centers

#58

Post by Hoff » Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 9:46 PM UTC

kragen wrote: post #12

flyt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a response to Greenpeace, this is a response to the real costs that it takes to run compute infrastructure at the scale of Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc. If a datacenter can run at 1.07 PUE (as Facebook's new datacenter does), then it directly translates to massive power cost savings. Environmental efficiency just comes along with it.

Okay, but why does it benefit Facebook's bottom line (and Google's!) to open-source that stuff? Wouldn't they be better off if their competitors had to pay those higher costs? It's not as if they have substantial computation-service providers they're buying from, or data-center-oriented companies they're selling to.

To get custom computing gear built, you have to show your designs and plans and requirements to various potential vendors, so (and NDA or not) the vendors now know what you're doing.

If FB can cause these servers to be offered as standard configurations and produced in (much) higher volumes than when produced as custom solutions built for for FB (or Google), then the costs to FB drop, and FB can potentially also get the vendors to compete with each other.

It's a clever move.

(If you're just running big DCs, and not looking to move into the cloud hosting business.)

Re: Facebook open sources its servers and data centers

#59

Post by smoody » Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 9:48 PM UTC

jedsmith wrote: post #49

hollerith wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link does not support your assertion. It's just a picture without a caption.

With a source fairly prominently displayed at the bottom. Follow along if you absolutely must know more: 1. Navigate to twitter.com/scobleizer. 2. Observe first tweet. http://twitter.com/Scobleizer/status/56062315665178624 That said, I lost all interest in the image due to the dumb focus effect.

ditto on the focus effect. reduces the value of the photo.

Re: Facebook open sources its servers and data centers

#60

Post by codex » Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 10:01 PM UTC

This is a strategic attack on Google. A proliferation of scalable data centers hurts Google a lot more than Facebook by enabling Google's competitors. Cheap computation matters much more to search engines than social networking sites.