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Accused spy Alexander Yuk Ching Ma evidently beat the polygraph

antipolygraph.org

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Re: Accused spy Alexander Yuk Ching Ma evidently beat the polygraph

#51

Post by mc32 »

pc86 wrote: post #43
3pt14159 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In former CIA officer Valery Plame's book Fair Game, she describes how an old hand at CIA told her that the best way to get through the polygraph is to be as detailed and honest as possible. Even on subjects that would be embarrassing, merely focussing on describing the truth and knowing that the interviewers appreciate candor can often alleviate nervousness. I've never been polygraphed and I have conflicting views o…

Polygraphs are not used in US courts and the results are not admissible at trial, so I'm not sure what you're referring to in the last paragraph.

I think there is confusion/conflation with defendants offering to take a polygraph to prove innocence. Sometimes it’s a naive offer sometimes it’s someone who wants to “show proof” they “didn’t do it”.

Re: Accused spy Alexander Yuk Ching Ma evidently beat the polygraph

#52

Post by stefan_ »

3pt14159 wrote: post #32
tingol wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong, they do not magically start working if you believe in them. If you're nervous for ANY reason it will give off a false positive. Not only if you're nervous of the machine itself. It is insane it's still being used in the US.

In former CIA officer Valery Plame's book Fair Game, she describes how an old hand at CIA told her that the best way to get through the polygraph is to be as detailed and honest as possible. Even on subjects that would be embarrassing, merely focussing on describing the truth and knowing that the interviewers appreciate candor can often alleviate nervousness. I've never been polygraphed and I have conflicting views o…

No, they don't belong anywhere. They are still useless.

Re: Accused spy Alexander Yuk Ching Ma evidently beat the polygraph

#54

Post by pc86 »

mc32 wrote: post #51
pc86 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polygraphs are not used in US courts and the results are not admissible at trial, so I'm not sure what you're referring to in the last paragraph.

I think there is confusion/conflation with defendants offering to take a polygraph to prove innocence. Sometimes it’s a naive offer sometimes it’s someone who wants to “show proof” they “didn’t do it”.

Which is part of why they're inadmissible regardless of who wants to use them.

Re: Accused spy Alexander Yuk Ching Ma evidently beat the polygraph

#55

Post by tokai »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #37
PedroBatista wrote: post #20

What's next? the FBI does palm reading to solve their hardest cases?

No, what’s next is facial recognition and “the computer says with 98% certainty that the defendant’s face is a match, Your Honor.”

Or even "the computer says that the defendant's face is the face of a criminal!"

Re: Accused spy Alexander Yuk Ching Ma evidently beat the polygraph

#56

Post by mc32 »

Why doesn’t the CIA just come out and tell all their recruits, we trust you and most of you truly believe in the mission and will never compromise but there are always a group of turncoats who will sell secrets or have other affiliations. Due to this we will monitor your credit and you will not know if the persons you are working with are internal investigators and we will have randomized investigations as matter of course up to the director.

In other words don’t ignore the possibility but work with that limitation.

Maybe they do this and people still do it, if so they’re doing a poor job of it.

Re: Accused spy Alexander Yuk Ching Ma evidently beat the polygraph

#57

Post by bluGill »

ferros wrote: post #23

50 percent chance an honest person barred for life. 50 percent chance a criminal gets let through. If that’s true it’s a wonder the FBI managed to get this far and continues to function.

Most people applying are not spies. Bayes therom applies.

Re: Accused spy Alexander Yuk Ching Ma evidently beat the polygraph

#58

Post by adriveatrain »

ed_elliott_asc wrote: post #50
LatteLazy wrote: post #4

Ah yes, polygraphs, long proven nonsense and not used in virtually any other western country. I wonder how he beat that?

There was a tv show in the uk where they used them to prove/disprove infidelity - I think it caused people to actually break up.

The show (Jeremy kyle) was taken off air because someone who failed the polygraph committed suicide.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/13/jeremy-kyle-take...

Re: Accused spy Alexander Yuk Ching Ma evidently beat the polygraph

#59

Post by rndgermandude »

LatteLazy wrote: post #44
bluntfang wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let's get real, polygraphs are a ruse in order to humiliate people and see how they react in torture situations. Using them is a power play. It lets the victim know who the boss is.

Partly its that. Partly its about tricking juries, "He failed/refused the polygraph" is a very nice way to discredit someone. At least 5 of the 12 people there will find that concerning and not know its BS.

I thought polygraphs are prohibited in courts in most jurisdictions?

Re: Accused spy Alexander Yuk Ching Ma evidently beat the polygraph

#60

Post by edwinyzh »

giles_corey wrote: post #8
wongarsu wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone outside the US use or believe in polygraphs?

Yes, unfortunately. The governments of the following countries, among others, rely on polygraphy to varying extents: Canada, UK, Israel, Russia, Ukraine, and China.

China has recently abandoned the use of Polygraph (I read such a news recently).
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