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How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

deprocrastination.co

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Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#51

Post by RobertoG »

stakkur wrote: post #30

I generally disagree with these kinds of models. Not because motivation, triggers, etc. aren't real things, but because they couch the problem as being either outside of us, or quasi-genetic (ADHD, etc.), instead of a choice that we make and own. Taking action has varying degrees of difficulty for every person. The factors are numerous. But in history, in life, in every scenario I've ever read or studied or watched,…

"[..] the person made a decision and took action"

Is not that a very low information content theory?

I mean, is not all this discussion about why somebody would choose not to take an action that it's beneficial for them if they know it is beneficial? That's the real question.

It's like this people that say that everybody can choose to be a millionaire. OK, but in that case, why so many people choose not to be a millionaire? Or why millionaires don't choose to be billionaires?

It seems to me that to answer "because they choose" is just wasting ink and explain nothing.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#52

Post by elchief »

georgespencer wrote: post #32
elchief wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you suffer ADHD, I strongly recommend reading Scattered Minds, by Gabor Mate. I found it enlightening

Thanks! I have a fortnight off coming up shortly and have added it to my queue. An area I spent a long time discussing in multiple consultations was the tension between genetic predisposition and environment. Interesting for a few reasons: firstly there’s some limited evidence that early treatment with medication can have a permanent positive impact on the condition in children. Which to my pea sized brain is suggest…

It didn't change my approach to treatment, no (I continue to take vyvanse)

However, the description of behavior of people with ADHD, made me say "oh, shit, that's 100% me". So, it was nice to know that I am not alone. It's comforting to know that some of my weirdness is from ADHD, and not inherently "me"

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#53

Post by stakkur »

DecayingOrganic wrote: post #38
stakkur wrote: post #30

I generally disagree with these kinds of models. Not because motivation, triggers, etc. aren't real things, but because they couch the problem as being either outside of us, or quasi-genetic (ADHD, etc.), instead of a choice that we make and own. Taking action has varying degrees of difficulty for every person. The factors are numerous. But in history, in life, in every scenario I've ever read or studied or watched,…

It's but an apparent fact that we do not have full control over our actions. Just think of the popular game Sims, how you can control your sim to do whatever you want it to do. Now compare that to your own experiences of attempting to control hunks of flesh on disintegrating bones. Thus any simplification in the form of "just do it, it's your choice" motto fails to account for these very real biological constraints.

I disagree, and that's a common reply. Making decisions and taking action are not the same as 'attempting to control' anything. And the idea here is obviously not 'limitations are not real', the idea is 'you make the decision you can and you take the best action you can'.

Example: you want to run a mile, but you have a foot deformity that makes it extremely difficult. That's fine. Decide to stand up. Now, decide to walk around the block. Can't do that? That's fine. Decide to stand up. Now, walk to the curb and back. Do it three times a day. Can't do that? That's fine. Stand up. Repeat.

Do you understand? Fundamentally, you will always have the ability to choose, even if that's no more than choosing how to respond to the limits you're under. You always have the ability to take action, even if that's no more than how you think.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#54

Post by vitabenes »

pmoriarty wrote: post #43

Some time back, I read all I could on procrastination, and watched dozens of videos on it, and by far the best thing I found on it was this video by Tim Pychyl: [1] It focuses particularly on procrastination in graduate school, but is widely applicable elsewhere. One of the key insights that Pychyl, a psychologist who studies procrastination, had is that procrastination is not (as is commonly believed) a time managem…

Yes, Pychil's work is incorporated in our materials.

This is the recipe for procrastination (according to us):

1. Think about a task - "I have to do _____."

2. Have an automatic negative reaction

     2a. Negative thoughts - "I hate doing this,"...

     2b Negative feelings - Feeling stressed, afraid,...
3. Procrastinate - Do something else to feel better.

Procrastination is all about escaping negative emotions.

Something makes you feel bad, you do something else to feel better.

Feeling better (reduced discomfort) is the short-term reward engaging in procrastination.

That's why procrastination can become addictive and automatic)

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#55

Post by sirmarksalot »

pmoriarty wrote: post #43

Some time back, I read all I could on procrastination, and watched dozens of videos on it, and by far the best thing I found on it was this video by Tim Pychyl: [1] It focuses particularly on procrastination in graduate school, but is widely applicable elsewhere. One of the key insights that Pychyl, a psychologist who studies procrastination, had is that procrastination is not (as is commonly believed) a time managem…

Thanks for this. I found the article to be really naive in a Dale Carnegie kind of way, that probably appeals to someone in their mid-20s trying to reinvent themselves, but is actually a psychological dead end. For me, procrastination has definitely fit the profile of pain avoidance rather than a lack of any of those three elements the article focuses on.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#56

Post by balfirevic »

vitabenes wrote: post #12
sna1l wrote: post #10

For things that I don't have the motivation to do (things I procrastinate), my strategy is to start doing the smallest possible unit of that thing as I can. Recently I started meditating, something I've tried to get into, but never have. I downloaded this app Balance which encourages daily practice (reminders, 3,5,10 guided meditations, etc). I am still not "motivated" to do it, but I don't need to be because it is j…

It's a good point. We do easy things even though we're not motivated. B J Fogg talks about motivation waves - motivation comes and goes like a wave. When you're riding high, Fogg recommends taking a hard action that will make future actions easier (register for a yoga class, go for a long run after months of not running). When motivation is low, take the easiest step possible. Over time, what we're familiar with (dai…

> We do easy things even though we're not motivated.

Ah, I see you are, at best, an amateur level procrastinator :)

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#57

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

stakkur wrote: post #30

I generally disagree with these kinds of models. Not because motivation, triggers, etc. aren't real things, but because they couch the problem as being either outside of us, or quasi-genetic (ADHD, etc.), instead of a choice that we make and own. Taking action has varying degrees of difficulty for every person. The factors are numerous. But in history, in life, in every scenario I've ever read or studied or watched,…

>the person made a decision and took action, over and over.

This is the precursor to successes. It's also the precursor to failures. In my experience, considering success factors in a vacuum leads to skewed conclusions.

There's an assumption that "meaningful rewards can be reliably expected to follow worthwhile efforts". That isn't universally true at all. You could append "in cases where efforts aren't negated by uncontrollable forces" to make it truthier.

To be helpful to more than a minority, advice-givers ought to be able to answer: "X has been done as prescribed, above and beyond even. Y isn't happening. Now what?"

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#58

Post by dboreham »

DecayingOrganic wrote: post #19

You can read the paper itself [0]. It was originally introduced as a behavior model for persuasive design, later on has become quite popular in self-help field. To summarize, it states: "The FBM asserts that for a person to perform a target behavior, he or she must (1) be sufficiently motivated, (2) have the ability to perform the behavior, and (3) be triggered to perform the behavior." The author then makes the case…

You have to select a random different tooth every day though.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#59

Post by epicureanideal »

vitabenes wrote: post #54
pmoriarty wrote: post #43

Some time back, I read all I could on procrastination, and watched dozens of videos on it, and by far the best thing I found on it was this video by Tim Pychyl: [1] It focuses particularly on procrastination in graduate school, but is widely applicable elsewhere. One of the key insights that Pychyl, a psychologist who studies procrastination, had is that procrastination is not (as is commonly believed) a time managem…

Yes, Pychil's work is incorporated in our materials. This is the recipe for procrastination (according to us): 1. Think about a task - "I have to do _____." 2. Have an automatic negative reaction 2a. Negative thoughts - "I hate doing this,"... 2b Negative feelings - Feeling stressed, afraid,... 3. Procrastinate - Do something else to feel better. Procrastination is all about escaping negative emotions. Something make…

I still think this is too limited. Analogous to how Keynes said classical / Ricardian economics discussed distribution of goods given a fixed level of production, the linked article doesn't consider that the maximum productive output on any given day is not the same, even when the 3 variables considered are maximized.

"Behavior" here seems to be a boolean, "why we take action or not take action at any given moment", but I think many people who ask how to be more motivated or productive are asking about total output, not just about the ability to begin a task. They might be able to sit down at their desk and start working, for example, but not be able to continue long even after doing all the tricks.

In my experience, there is some sort of "mental energy reserve", and as that is exhausted it becomes increasingly difficult or maybe impossible to do any further productive work. If you are doing a strength training workout in the gym, no amount of "motivation" is going to let you continue lifting heavy weight indefinitely. I haven't seen much research to quantify that "mental energy reserve" or quantitatively measure how different tasks exhaust it.

There also seems to be some task-related inertia.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#60

Post by hanniabu »

anon9001 wrote: post #49
non-entity wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok serious question: Every one of these points is very applicable to me, especially 1,2 and 3. I haven't been to a doctor in years outside occasional emergency trips. How do you bring this up without seriously. I don't want to come off as the guy who compulsively self diagnoses based off what they read on the internet.

No problem, serious answer: This is the DSMV criteria: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html Doctors are typically screening with a quiz that looks something like this: https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/adhd-quiz/ It's perfectly reasonable to say "I think I may have ADHD based on what I've read online, my symptoms match and people who know me have suggested I try adderall". Some doctors are fine with letting…

> IR pills can be broken in half, XR cannot

You can always take the XR pill apart and split it into blank capsules. Or you can just dump a little out and take it without the capsule.

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